A Chinese factory bike-maker called Pardus just came out with possibly the ugliest Time Trial bike since the Cervelo P5-X. This bike is triathlon’s version of The Homer. The one nice thing I can say about it is that the front brake is a TRP 861 which is likely the best, most powerful front rim brake you can buy. I have one of these brakes and it’s a beautiful thing I’ve been dying to use.
I would never buy the above bike, but this Pardus firm has caught my eye with their legacy model – hat tip to Culprit for the referral – and I’m considering ordering one instead of the Cervelo P4, because as far as I can tell the Pardus is the only bike on the market with P4-esque geo.
The 50 cm Pardus vis-a-vis the 51 cm P4 is 2 mm lower on the frame stack and 7 mm shorter on the frame reach. This bike looks so much like a P4 I might have it custom painted in classic P4 paint scheme just so triathletes don’t throw rocks at me.
This bike has a direct mount front, standard interfaces, and comes in paint color of choice. What am I missing? Why is this bike not on ST’s radar, except for the brand boner all of you guys have for Cervelo? Has anyone tried the Pardus? Has anyone been suffered debilitating injury while riding it? I figure it can’t be more dangerous than a Felt IA, but lack of recourse in the event of paralysis unsettles me.
Note: I was considering building up a P4 solely for the purpose of demo-ing a bunch of the latest and greatest front end solutions over the winter – which I’ll review (read: shit on profusely) in a series of posts on these boards – but the used P4 market is awful…sellers either don’t have water bottles, or the frame is cracked, or they are charging outrageous amounts. Clearance issues, rear brake is shit, etc. It’s hard out here in a short, tall, slack world, but we can vote with our wallets, and I just may.
What gives the P4 it’s cult following. I love it’s looks but there’s got to be more to it.
Cult following because it’s Cervelo. They make great bikes and perhaps the fastest bikes, but that P4 ripoff well configured, with a rear wheel that fits and braking that stops the bike…well, forget the brand.
not in the budget right now, but I’ll probably be getting something next year and I’m making a shortlist.
Cannondale Slice is at the top of my list right now.
Disc brakes or rim job?
rim. it ain’t the fastest frame out there, but it’s fine for my slow ass. I can make it work slammed, but my position will be changing a bit over the winter, so I don’t want to commit to a new frame just yet.
if you want long and low and chinese, also have a look at dengfu. the FM068 looks like a contender for me too, and it’s a frameset which, for me, just means new cranks and BB, and probably a rear brake.
That said, still leaning toward the Slice. support my LBS and all that, overall, with price a factor, I like it the best of the lines they carry (Cdale, Trek, Cervelo)
What gives the P4 it’s cult following. I love it’s looks but there’s got to be more to it.
Damn fast bike, can be/is faster than the p5 due to the geometry and the position you can get into if you fit long and low.
The difference at the time between at p3 and p4 was pretty considerable. But my guess is most bikes have easily closed that gap at this point. But nothing was close to the p4 at the time if it got you into a position that bike that you couldn’t in others.
The back brake was junk and they were caught with their pants down on the switch to wider wheels so disc wheels were a super tight fit and may rub.
I’ve rode the p3/p4/p5. The p5 is a much better bike overall. But if I had the chance to test head to head based on the position I could get into on the p4 my guess is it’d may be slightly faster for me.
End of day, the love for it is driven by the geometry and at the time and still is a very fast bike. Finding that geometry now is tough if not impossible for a lot of people.
You are forgetting about weight. Someone told me a while back – and this could be totally untrue – that Ty Butterfield is riding the P5 instead of the P5-X because it’s quite a bit lighter. Based on the results from our testing, weight consideration on a hilly course like 70.3 worlds would bring these bikes into virtual parity. And the P4 was significantly lighter than the P5, with the same margin in aero. So on tougher courses, the P4 in design direction is the best bike.
The P5 was a better bike only in the sense that it didn’t have the braking, clearance, routing, etc. issues of the P4. And it had hydraulic brakes, if you’re into that. But it wasn’t really faster, was it? And who wants that chintzy beard on their bike, not to mention the pain of travel relative to standard interfaces. And it shipped with a SLOW bar. And no integration. At least the P4 could fit a flat kit in the bottle.
The P5 was a whiff in every aspect except sales, in my opinion. It sold on brand equity and perception of aero supremacy. Because Cervelo.
The P4 has the most aggressive geo, of course, but that’s relevant to like 7 of us on Slowtwitch and not to the broader market. The only reason I need something this long and low is because I’m sick of the undermount setups and bar limitations of my particular coordinates. But that’s not most people. So I sympathize with the manufacturers on this, as most everyone can hit their numbers on the P5.
Do you think the TRP is more powerful than the EE? Bold claim, if so.
I’m not convinced you couldn’t clean up the new Pardus to be no worse looking than a Speed Concept, and have the benefit of the TRP brake; just scrap some of the add-on compartments.
Do you think the TRP is more powerful than the EE? Bold claim, if so.
I’m not convinced you couldn’t clean up the new Pardus to be no worse looking than a Speed Concept, and have the benefit of the TRP brake; just scrap some of the add-on compartments.
Unless I could get a custom fork that would interface well with it, I’d need to run the Omega X in front. The reason is width. The TRP brake is wide, and the fork for the Pardus is not nearly as wide, supposedly. Which of course would disrupt the laminar flow around the brake/fork interface and make me slow. I guess I could train on it.
Oh, and not sure vis-a-vis the ee brake. My sense is that the TRP would be better just because it is unencumbered by weight weenieism. You have to think that Cane Creek made compromises in power to achieve weight ends.
You are forgetting about weight. Someone told me a while back – and this could be totally untrue – that Ty Butterfield is riding the P5 instead of the P5-X because it’s quite a bit lighter. Based on the results from our testing, weight consideration on a hilly course like 70.3 worlds would bring these bikes into virtual parity. And the P4 was significantly lighter than the P5, with the same margin in aero. So on tougher courses, the P4 in design direction is the best bike.
The P5 was a better bike only in the sense that it didn’t have the braking, clearance, routing, etc. issues of the P4. And it had hydraulic brakes, if you’re into that. But it wasn’t really faster, was it? And who wants that chintzy beard on their bike, not to mention the pain of travel relative to standard interfaces. And it shipped with a SLOW bar. And no integration. At least the P4 could fit a flat kit in the bottle.
The P5 was a whiff in every aspect except sales, in my opinion. It sold on brand equity and perception of aero supremacy. Because Cervelo.
The P4 has the most aggressive geo, of course, but that’s relevant to like 7 of us on Slowtwitch and not to the broader market. The only reason I need something this long and low is because I’m sick of the undermount setups and bar limitations of my particular coordinates. But that’s not most people. So I sympathize with the manufacturers on this, as most everyone can hit their numbers on the P5.
I’m one of the Magnificent Seven
P4 was a faster bike - for me - than my P5 is.
And a better climber too, but that also might have something to do with an aging motor.
I hate that Cervelo raised the stack on the P5 vs P4.
But yeah, the P5 is much less finicky and easier to live with, and has actual brakes that actually work.
I love my 2011 P4 and have yet to see a bike that would make me want to upgrade.
I have extra water bottles if you want to make a flat kit. The upgraded rear brake on the 2011 model was much better than the original brake (I heard, never rode the 2009 model). While it’s not like having a Dura Ace/Ultregra side pull brake, if you have a good brake on the front wheel, the bike can stop just fine. Clearance can be a slight issue, but I’ve run 808 FC sized wheels with 23 mm tires just fine. A flat disc is actually faster on the bike, and it’s cheaper to find as well.
I’m actually thinking about a new front end for the bike so if you’d like help for your project, let me know!
The p5-6’s bar as far as I know is that slow. Maybe it is but not seeing why it would be minus that it’s but stupid deep like ventus was.
I love the brakes on the p5 by far the best I’ve had on a bike and traveling the extra work is minimal compared to a stardust’s bike. Maybe 5 mins more if that.
Unless someone has done a 3rd party test to show otherwise the p5-6 came in speed wise pretty much where they said. But yes you do run into issues if it’s not going to get you a faster fit.
Given I live right outside the foothills and how crappy the braking was on the p4 I probabaly wouldn’t ride it here. But I wouldn’t mind picking one up again.
