The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread

Triathlon Forum
882

I know your stance of carbon shoes? it doesn’t make sense but I know of it.

Did you see what happened to Blumenfelt in Milwaukee cramping on the bike. He and his coach said this was to with very little time on the bike vs road bike prepping for ITU. they should have done more on the TT bike. testing and efforts.

If carbon shoes are an aero bike and regular shoes are a road bike ( some more speed at the same work load. Should you focus your speed work on the bike or shoe you plan to race on and use the other for the easy???

Therefore wouldn’t you want race prep efforts like the race and easy effort like you don’t ?

the TT vs road not a good example, as the position must be adapted to. More so it would be like always training on TT bike with disc wheel and aero suit vs without. BUT, sure there are maybe 1-2 workouts before a race done in the shoes to adapt (and see if there are kinks to workout)

This shows you have ever worn carbon fiber shoes. you have to adapt to the shoes too. but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power . same as the shoes that = rest ground contact time. you will need to be used to a higher turnover and less ground time.

why do you think people put them on and say wow what a difference, because it is different for the same effort. it’s good to be used to your paces as a pro not all of a sudden oh this is different.

883

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

884

I think everyone has an n = 1 but I would think it’s very much advisable to do some type of “shake out” or even a full workout prior if you need it. to any type of major adjustment in equipment going from training to racing.

Whether that’s from going from regular training wheel to race wheels or training shoe to racing shoe. Some type of “make sure it’s good” would seem to be smart.

885

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

Good that you think that. but you adapt to many different changes all the time and lucky you don’t require thinking to know that. If you could just think towards adaptions then read enough books and collecting knowledge could win you a gold medal without training.

pool swim vs wetsuit swim you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???

The shoes made you faster some how didn’t they ??? rpm increase ? distance per step ( air time) was that not different and therefore took some form of adaption (not that it took for ever). Do you not adapt to biking in a large gear to gain watts and torque???

You ever swim all summer in your wetsuit and then go back to the pool, it kind of shows you that you adapted when your swim feels more difficult in the pool 2 months later. YET your swim speeds in the wetsuit were high.

886

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

Good that you think that. but you adapt to many different changes all the time and lucky you don’t require thinking to know that. If you could just think towards adaptions then read enough books and collecting knowledge could win you a gold medal without training.

pool swim vs wetsuit swim you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???

The shoes made you faster some how didn’t they ??? rpm increase ? distance per step ( air time) was that not different and therefore took some form of adaption (not that it took for ever). Do you not adapt to biking in a large gear to gain watts and torque???

You ever swim all summer in your wetsuit and then go back to the pool, it kind of shows you that you adapted when your swim feels more difficult in the pool 2 months later. YET your swim speeds in the wetsuit were high.

I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those.

Totally a tangent, but since we are in the Sanders threat, CEO of overtraining, if you heard Blummenfelt’s latest Triathlon Hour interview, he said he got off the bike feeling like he had nothing left. He wonders if maybe it was surging too much with Ditlev. Maybe. Maybe he would have had a lot more left if he hadn’t, um, you know, practically ran and biked an Ironman in Kona at race pace in the days leading into the race? Maybe Gustav’s physiology wouldn’t have been so on the edge of collapse if he hadn’t either? Norwegian method… Lost Gustav 1-2 years of events and left Kristian feeling like he had nothing left at the start of the bike.

Only Sanders topped that one, but overtraining next to a doping training partner the week of Kona as well. And he even had the lactate testing to prove he was doing too much…

887

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

888

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

A rider at Gear ratio 54, 15 at
90 rpm goes 40.8 km per hr
92 rpm 41.7 km per hr

You can either do this with more watts or less drag either was the chain to connect the rider to the bike must travel at this speed. So you should be used to the best ratios at the speed for top efficiency.

If course conditions are always changing in the real world so the rider must be familiar with the best possible way to get to their best speed.

889

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

Good that you think that. but you adapt to many different changes all the time and lucky you don’t require thinking to know that. If you could just think towards adaptions then read enough books and collecting knowledge could win you a gold medal without training.

pool swim vs wetsuit swim you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???

The shoes made you faster some how didn’t they ??? rpm increase ? distance per step ( air time) was that not different and therefore took some form of adaption (not that it took for ever). Do you not adapt to biking in a large gear to gain watts and torque???

You ever swim all summer in your wetsuit and then go back to the pool, it kind of shows you that you adapted when your swim feels more difficult in the pool 2 months later. YET your swim speeds in the wetsuit were high.

I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those.

Totally a tangent, but since we are in the Sanders threat, CEO of overtraining, if you heard Blummenfelt’s latest Triathlon Hour interview, he said he got off the bike feeling like he had nothing left. He wonders if maybe it was surging too much with Ditlev. Maybe. Maybe he would have had a lot more left if he hadn’t, um, you know, practically ran and biked an Ironman in Kona at race pace in the days leading into the race? Maybe Gustav’s physiology wouldn’t have been so on the edge of collapse if he hadn’t either? Norwegian method… Lost Gustav 1-2 years of events and left Kristian feeling like he had nothing left at the start of the bike.

Only Sanders topped that one, but overtraining next to a doping training partner the week of Kona as well. And he even had the lactate testing to prove he was doing too much…

Not sure we can be sure if it’s was the shoes lots of other shit happened to him between kona and 2023 season.

He don’t tend to blame hoka’s for Jan’s injuries or what ever Lucy runs in ect.

If the shoes make the running everyone should wear the same as Anna haug.

The main topic why go back to non carbon , you should run in both but to say going back to the old style for speed work will make you better ??? We will see ?

One of the biggest benefits of carbon fibre shoes is less fatigue and muscle strain so you recover faster. to do more training if you run speed work in flats and take longer to recover then your competitors isn’t that the worst result you could have .

890

The funny thing about training numbers transparency. I get a kick out of which numbers athlete’s share in these videos. IE- there’s a reason why LS won’t share a single swim workout split ever, and yet he’ll flex on just about every workout video with eye popping B or R splits. To be fair to LS, others have behaved in the same way (GJ won’t ever give a swim split but she’ll drop every run workout split she does on video). I just find it interesting what splits get shared with and which splits don’t get shared with. I’ve always thought the best content is sharing the workout and splits within said workout video, if you want full transparency (again I get why LS doesn’t share “meh” swim splits, just find it interesting when they then share a strong B or R split in the same video).

Actually… if you have the Form app, his swims are public and it’s all there lap by lap with all the metrics. I guess it just doesn’t sync with strava.

891

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

Good that you think that. but you adapt to many different changes all the time and lucky you don’t require thinking to know that. If you could just think towards adaptions then read enough books and collecting knowledge could win you a gold medal without training.

pool swim vs wetsuit swim you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???

The shoes made you faster some how didn’t they ??? rpm increase ? distance per step ( air time) was that not different and therefore took some form of adaption (not that it took for ever). Do you not adapt to biking in a large gear to gain watts and torque???

You ever swim all summer in your wetsuit and then go back to the pool, it kind of shows you that you adapted when your swim feels more difficult in the pool 2 months later. YET your swim speeds in the wetsuit were high.

I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those.

Totally a tangent, but since we are in the Sanders threat, CEO of overtraining, if you heard Blummenfelt’s latest Triathlon Hour interview, he said he got off the bike feeling like he had nothing left. He wonders if maybe it was surging too much with Ditlev. Maybe. Maybe he would have had a lot more left if he hadn’t, um, you know, practically ran and biked an Ironman in Kona at race pace in the days leading into the race? Maybe Gustav’s physiology wouldn’t have been so on the edge of collapse if he hadn’t either? Norwegian method… Lost Gustav 1-2 years of events and left Kristian feeling like he had nothing left at the start of the bike.

Only Sanders topped that one, but overtraining next to a doping training partner the week of Kona as well. And he even had the lactate testing to prove he was doing too much…

Not sure we can be sure if it’s was the shoes lots of other shit happened to him between kona and 2023 season.

He don’t tend to blame hoka’s for Jan’s injuries or what ever Lucy runs in ect.

If the shoes make the running everyone should wear the same as Anna haug.

The main topic why go back to non carbon , you should run in both but to say going back to the old style for speed work will make you better ??? We will see ?

One of the biggest benefits of carbon fibre shoes is less fatigue and muscle strain so you recover faster. to do more training if you run speed work in flats and take longer to recover then your competitors isn’t that the worst result you could have .

I thought it was common knowledge that:

• Jan recent injuries were related to the smashing the ground in the rain on his side and then proceeding to run a fast marathon on it at the tri-battle, which maybe in hindsight he should have called off due to the weather.
• Lucy needs to eat more (or more protein)

maybe only partly in pink :slight_smile:

892

I didn’t have to “adapt” to carbon shoes.

Good that you think that. but you adapt to many different changes all the time and lucky you don’t require thinking to know that. If you could just think towards adaptions then read enough books and collecting knowledge could win you a gold medal without training.

pool swim vs wetsuit swim you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???

The shoes made you faster some how didn’t they ??? rpm increase ? distance per step ( air time) was that not different and therefore took some form of adaption (not that it took for ever). Do you not adapt to biking in a large gear to gain watts and torque???

You ever swim all summer in your wetsuit and then go back to the pool, it kind of shows you that you adapted when your swim feels more difficult in the pool 2 months later. YET your swim speeds in the wetsuit were high.

I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those.

Totally a tangent, but since we are in the Sanders threat, CEO of overtraining, if you heard Blummenfelt’s latest Triathlon Hour interview, he said he got off the bike feeling like he had nothing left. He wonders if maybe it was surging too much with Ditlev. Maybe. Maybe he would have had a lot more left if he hadn’t, um, you know, practically ran and biked an Ironman in Kona at race pace in the days leading into the race? Maybe Gustav’s physiology wouldn’t have been so on the edge of collapse if he hadn’t either? Norwegian method… Lost Gustav 1-2 years of events and left Kristian feeling like he had nothing left at the start of the bike.

Only Sanders topped that one, but overtraining next to a doping training partner the week of Kona as well. And he even had the lactate testing to prove he was doing too much…

Not sure we can be sure if it’s was the shoes lots of other shit happened to him between kona and 2023 season.

He don’t tend to blame hoka’s for Jan’s injuries or what ever Lucy runs in ect.

If the shoes make the running everyone should wear the same as Anna haug.

The main topic why go back to non carbon , you should run in both but to say going back to the old style for speed work will make you better ??? We will see ?

One of the biggest benefits of carbon fibre shoes is less fatigue and muscle strain so you recover faster. to do more training if you run speed work in flats and take longer to recover then your competitors isn’t that the worst result you could have .

I thought it was common knowledge that:

• Jan recent injuries were related to the smashing the ground in the rain on his side and then proceeding to run a fast marathon on it at the tri-battle, which maybe in hindsight he should have called off due to the weather.
• Lucy needs to eat more (or more protein)

maybe only partly in pink :slight_smile:

Lots of pink , Jan has had calf injuries that stoped him from racing 2022 if I recall correct (Roth) Tri Battle was 2021. We don’t know all the details.

I think Lucy s issue were likely the down hill speed at 70.3 worlds 2021 on that steep downhill section she flew down with a big impact load which lead to the hip possible . Then coming back from the hip you lose hip timing and strength and athletes usually try to make up for that with a high calf effort . But that just what we get to see.

893

you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???
I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those… . . don’t tend to blame hoka’s for Jan’s injuries or what ever Lucy runs in ect.

If the shoes make the running everyone should wear the same as Anna (sic) haug.I thought it was common knowledge that:
• Lucy needs to eat more (or more protein)
maybe only partly in pink :slight_smile:

Lots of pink ,
I think Lucy s issue were likely the down hill speed at 70.3 worlds 2021 on that steep downhill section she flew down with a big impact load which lead to the hip possible . Then coming back from the hip you lose hip timing and strength and athletes usually try to make up for that with a high calf effort . But that just what we get to see.Anne Haug races in Nike.
The new Asics shoes have just been launched and will be worn by some in T100 Miami (Edge or Sky).
https://www.asics.com/gb/en-gb/METASPEED-Paris/
“For METASPEEDâ„¢ EDGE PARIS, the carbon plate is more curved and situated lower within the shoe’s midsole, creating a softer feel and energy return that propels you forwards and speeds up your stride. This shoe is therefore best suited to high-cadence runners who tend to take more strides as they speed up their run.”

894

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

A rider at Gear ratio 54, 15 at
90 rpm goes 40.8 km per hr
92 rpm 41.7 km per hr

You can either do this with more watts or less drag either was the chain to connect the rider to the bike must travel at this speed. So you should be used to the best ratios at the speed for top efficiency.

If course conditions are always changing in the real world so the rider must be familiar with the best possible way to get to their best speed.

And you are saying a rider has to ride his disc in practice sessions to get this right on race day ?

895

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

A rider at Gear ratio 54, 15 at
90 rpm goes 40.8 km per hr
92 rpm 41.7 km per hr

You can either do this with more watts or less drag either was the chain to connect the rider to the bike must travel at this speed. So you should be used to the best ratios at the speed for top efficiency.

If course conditions are always changing in the real world so the rider must be familiar with the best possible way to get to their best speed.

And you are saying a rider has to ride his disc in practice sessions to get this right on race day ?

in all practice sessions ? No, but a lot of effort sessions sure. If you are racing above 40 km per hr you should practicing that, if you are doing a recovery ride hit the gravel bike.

Is that a new crazy concept!!!

Again blummenfelt in Milwaukee he says his best fitness of the year lost due to not enough bike time on his TT.

896

you have to adapt to different center of mass and ability to have a higher turn over, same with higher bouncy tilted shoes. Maybe that’s why Gustav has a calf issue, he could adapt enough in those high shoes???
I’m glad you brought Gustav up. Yes, it should be obvious that the shoes may have won him Kona and lost him all of 2023 and possibly 2024. Is that worth it in the end? I’d assume he would have done just as well in the Asics if he raced in those… . . don’t tend to blame hoka’s for Jan’s injuries or what ever Lucy runs in ect.

If the shoes make the running everyone should wear the same as Anna (sic) haug.I thought it was common knowledge that:
• Lucy needs to eat more (or more protein)
maybe only partly in pink :slight_smile:

Lots of pink ,
I think Lucy s issue were likely the down hill speed at 70.3 worlds 2021 on that steep downhill section she flew down with a big impact load which lead to the hip possible . Then coming back from the hip you lose hip timing and strength and athletes usually try to make up for that with a high calf effort . But that just what we get to see.Anne Haug races in Nike.
The new Asics shoes have just been launched and will be worn by some in T100 Miami (Edge or Sky).
https://www.asics.com/gb/en-gb/METASPEED-Paris/
“For METASPEEDâ„¢ EDGE PARIS, the carbon plate is more curved and situated lower within the shoe’s midsole, creating a softer feel and energy return that propels you forwards and speeds up your stride. This shoe is therefore best suited to high-cadence runners who tend to take more strides as they speed up their run.”

I like the bikes more than the 2023 metaspeed . I also found according to my stryd the metaspeed died way faster in energy return vs the Nike and older Nikes.

This Lionel thread is sure going away for Lionel ?

897

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

A rider at Gear ratio 54, 15 at
90 rpm goes 40.8 km per hr
92 rpm 41.7 km per hr

You can either do this with more watts or less drag either was the chain to connect the rider to the bike must travel at this speed. So you should be used to the best ratios at the speed for top efficiency.

If course conditions are always changing in the real world so the rider must be familiar with the best possible way to get to their best speed.

And you are saying a rider has to ride his disc in practice sessions to get this right on race day ?

in all practice sessions ? No, but a lot of effort sessions sure. If you are racing above 40 km per hr you should practicing that, if you are doing a recovery ride hit the gravel bike.

Is that a new crazy concept!!!

Again blummenfelt in Milwaukee he says his best fitness of the year lost due to not enough bike time on his TT.

No. A poster (synthetic) said carbon shoes are akin to a speedsuit or disc wheel, to which you disagreed and came up with

“if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power . same as the shoes that = rest ground contact time”

We are all entitled to opinions, but if you are going to flippantly start your post with “this shows you have ever”…you may want to get your facts right

898

Save your breath Marc. He’s an expert.

899

but even your idea of a disc very a non disc, your gear ratios with less resistance change too. if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power

Can you please explain this ?

A rider at Gear ratio 54, 15 at
90 rpm goes 40.8 km per hr
92 rpm 41.7 km per hr

You can either do this with more watts or less drag either was the chain to connect the rider to the bike must travel at this speed. So you should be used to the best ratios at the speed for top efficiency.

If course conditions are always changing in the real world so the rider must be familiar with the best possible way to get to their best speed.

And you are saying a rider has to ride his disc in practice sessions to get this right on race day ?

in all practice sessions ? No, but a lot of effort sessions sure. If you are racing above 40 km per hr you should practicing that, if you are doing a recovery ride hit the gravel bike.

Is that a new crazy concept!!!

Again blummenfelt in Milwaukee he says his best fitness of the year lost due to not enough bike time on his TT.

No. A poster (synthetic) said carbon shoes are akin to a speedsuit or disc wheel, to which you disagreed and came up with

“if your disc saves up 1 km per hr say… you need to practice your power at the same gear but holding 2-3 rpm higher to achieve the same power . same as the shoes that = rest ground contact time”

We are all entitled to opinions, but if you are going to flippantly start your post with “this shows you have ever”…you may want to get your facts right

That was towards that specific poster he has been ain’t carbon shoes for 4 years posting on them constantly yet never using them. How would he have any idea about training in them when he has never used them.

I have lots of data on himself with different carbon shoes and normal shoes. They are different not a lot but are. The two biggest factors are less ground contact time to keep momentum and bounce return for a longer air time. Hence why people can be faster in them.

900

Salty much.

901

Not at all.