Hw did the full Norge two years ago and he had a horrible year.
Finally got to watch. We must be getting trolled.
No long zone two runs? No long zone 2 rides? I mean, even if you donât buy into the 80/20 stuff, how does he just now coming to the conclusion that the difference between his high intensity middle distance and long distance is he needs more time at steady endurance pace?
Are there people training for Ironman doing exclusively high low intervals and no long endurance pacing?
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So where do you guys hear him say he wasnât doing any long zone 2 workouts? He says âtoo many intervalsâ and explains that the repeats were too short (context strongly suggests that Lionel doesnât consider 3x60â at race pace an interval workout). And thatâs it.
The fact that we didnât see YouTube videos about long runs or rides is easily explained by the fact that Talbot doesnât want people switching off after 2 minutes.
Lionel has done stupid things in the past and he probably did stupid things in the run up to this race, but come on.
The comparisons of one wattage to another and one result to another is hard
- He rode 5minutes faster this year on similar watts. Look at his 2017 race reports and he is in that 285w range
- The dynamics were different : remember he did ride with Cam for a while until Cam dropped him. I am sure weather was different, although he spoke of a massive headwind/tailwind back then
- When you analyze race results, Lionel is at his test numbers in some sections and completely off in others. If you do âtime in optimal positionâ metrics, I would bet Laidlow is there 99% of the time. I did not see him in Kona, but Lionel is often not. IMO, athletes should be doing long rides pre race and this can be looked at
- I think I have given my opinion of what the â30 wattsâ really were. But even then what was the âstart pointâ. Look at his 2017 position and his 2024 position : itâs not that far off. Certainly closer than some of the positions he adopted between the two time periods (high hands, UCI bikesâŚ)
-Back in 2017 he shaved so there are 12 watts there
FYI, your 10w = 2.5min is pretty close. More like 8âŚbut that depends on parameters used.
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Lionel didnât do the full Norge with Mikal. In a few of Lionelâs videos, he talks about asking for the killer workouts that Gustav and Blu failed on, and then trying those. Then Lionel was trying to layer on tons of volume on top of it, and so obviously it didnât work.
If itâs one thing that the Full Norge is not, itâs killer workouts. In fact, thatâs Sandersâ thing.
Has anyone mentioned caffeine consumption? In the nutrition video heâs having 4 cups of espresso before noon vs race day heâs up earlier than usual and I donât recall any of his race fueling containing caffeine (So assume 1 cup before heading down to the race, and the âsip of colaâ of the run). If heâs always âexhaustedâ around noon wouldnât that start adding up?
its hard to compare different races
but i have to disagree that dynamics were that different , the tactics were different ,he chose to let cam go , as just like 2017 they came out of the water together.
and both races finished with a new course record .
2017 41 people finshed the race 2024 42 people finished the race so dnf rate pretty much the same as well .
he let Cam go much later in the race IIRC
as i said thats tatcitc not dynamic.
yes yes yes
But I meant donât compare them too closely.
In one case he may have been working 75% of the time with someone, in the other 0%.
do you think a world tour cycle coach would recommend lionel cycle 100 percent on your own lol
if you say yes i leave this thread âŚ
I canât imagine thatâs good for recovery either. Heâs always talking about how heâs a poor sleeper. No duh if youâre slamming 4-5 coffees a day
no way. Nor would they agree with the indoor training.
Lionel is the kind of guy that takes info, digests it in his brain and decides how he wants to interpret it. He would be well served to have some conversations with some WT guys. Funny part is many of them know him and would be happy to chat.
If I were a pro triathlete, I would be turning to WT resources for advice. Many of them are very open minded and GET the idea that tri is not cycling but have a ton in common. The Placid puke-a-thon was a dinner conversation one night.
Another example : Iâd go to Nice and I wouldnât ride with Chevalier as he says. Iâd find 2 or 3 WT guys that would gladly ride with him and teach him to descend.
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A little memory jog for you guysâŚCam passed Lionel not long after the turn a HawiâŚ
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@talbotcox please make this happen. Itâs right here!
and here one for you from the horses mouth
Paper Olav justed posted on Kristian
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WT is different, cause you cannot power through the pack of people like an indoor ride
Just did a quick scan of this â is his main point that metabolic limits need to be reassessed because he documented 3 years of calorie deficit?
maybe KB was just sneaking extra snacks? 
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I am not sure what you mean