The more things change the more they stay the same..... Who ARE you to believe?

Hopefully you are aware of the Jena story, but either way read this and then tell me based on all the views opinions and facts stated that you can tell what the truth is.

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/black_high_school_students_louisiana_threatened_lynching

EDIT: Let me clarify it does appear all sides agree the School Board blew it with the slap on the wrist the original 3 white boys received. And NO ONE disputes that this place basically had a whites only seating area and some on this board are surprised (ANOTHER EDIT) when the reaction from slowtwitchers is (one of ya so what do you expect) to a nationally covered mix race marriage couple that gets some hate mail… PLEASE there are much worst things going on out there.

Without marginalizing the event, that article reads as if it was written by a guy off the street relaying what he heard at a gas station versus investigative reorting. Still, it’s a serius issue that warrants the categorization of facts and (any) missing information included.

The school Administration chalked it up as a harmless prank

What was the procedure used to arrive at a 3-day suspension? Surly the parents & students were interviewed, and it was discussed/assessed whether the students intended to carry out a much more severe act following the hanging of the nooses.

School Administrators are not in the same realm as Wild West marshalls, where they have the freedom to do whatever they want. Board/District policies likely set limits or a range of suspension length for different bejaviors. While the act is dispicable, it’s likely not in the same category as a student striking a teacher, fighting another student, etc.

The above quoted sentence reads like ones interpretation, and while it creates stereotypical images of an overweight, balding, white superintendent yuking it up with “those silly rascals”, it likely doesn’t represent the factual events that occurred.

Angry parents will never be appeased because expelling students for the year is not likely a possible choice for the admin, even though many will agree that the parents have every reason to be pissed … and concerned…

The difference in punsihments between what one group of students did (hanging the nooses) and what the other group did (beating someone up) are different categories of behavior … one more severe (by our standards) than the other. Hence, the different and more severe punishment. In our country, calling someone a racial slur or other racist act is not in the same severe category as say, kickin’ somone’s arse.

I would not be surprised if the DA did, in fact, pull the “tough guy” act, as many still think that stuff works. In reality, it likely served as gasoline on the fire. Kids don’t respond to threats and authority like they used to. Refer to the WWE as an example of how many students react to authority. Not cause and effect, but maybe representative of that demographic.

There seems to be a whole lot of information missing from the “article”. But, I can believe that the black students were mistreated, mad about it, and set out to handle it themselves. I’ve seen situations where one student will use a racial slur and receive punishment for it … but then offended students “handle their business” and kick the snot out the student, and then receive harsher penalties than occurred with the initial act … followed by peole complaining that the punishments are “equal” (neither were the acts … by our standards).

Reading the people’s posts after the article make me still wonder what the facts are (without trying to get over-emotional about it). It’s a serious situation … serious enough that one should approach with caution before knowing what really happened and how the decisions were made, as well as, what limitations/policies are in place in the district.

I’m not surprised that there’s still racial conflicts in our country. There likely always will be. Obviously,I’m not condoning it, just stating reality (IMO).

The school Administration chalked it up as a harmless prank

Well the principle wanted them expelled.

Obviously, something went terribly wrong at that school (as you observed, the School Board underreacted to the original racist action), but equally obviously, the article was written with a slant. If I had to draw any judgments in the situation, I’d definitely want to hear more perspectives from those directly involved.

“…and some on this board are surprised when a nationally covered mix race marriage couple gets some hate mail…”

Who on this forum was surprised? The original poster of the thread in question didn’t seem to be surprised at that situation, although he clearly regarded it as deplorable. (His “The more things change the more they stay the same” title almost suggests ennui, certainly not surprise.) OTOH, he did seem surprised to see that some TNOers would actually argue in favor of intolerance.

**OTOH, he did seem surprised to see that some TNOers would actually argue in favor of intolerance. **

I certainly don’t recall anyone arguing in favor of intolerance. I am sure that BarryP is next to the Son of God in regards to piusness and therefore he is able to pass judgement on all of those beliefs that bigots and racists hold. And God forbid anyone call him on his sanctimonious judgements or he will immediately go on the attack and brand any and all a bigot or racist.

Thoughts and beliefs do not hurt people. Everyone of us is predjudiced in some way or another, therefore I choose not to judge people based on their thoughts and beliefs, but rather their actions, for if I did, not a single one of us would be worthy of praise. In this case, the illegal actions of the bigots in the original post are reprehensible, and those actions should be condemned. However, the thoughts and beliefs of those racists and bigots did nothing to harm anyone and therefore, in my opinion, are irrelavent.

Instead of discussing why people should be free to think and believe as they wish, BarryP condemned those who offered their opinion as hypocritical, crazy, and insane. If BarryP is the example of a non-bigot, I think we as a society are in a much worse position than we would otherwise be.

Rob, not sure which original poster you are implying. For this thread that would be me. And as you know this title was lifted from another thread, on the subject. The title was not meant to imply anything other than, say here is a simimliar thread.

surprised when a nationally covered mix race marriage couple gets some hate mail


You can rewrite the events as you wish, but the surprise was not that they received the hate mail (I was “apalled”). The surprise was that many slowtwitchers were more concerned about them making the event public and “getting what they deserved”.

Yes, this one is bad as well.

“In this case, the illegal actions of the bigots in the original post are reprehensible, and those actions should be condemned. However, the thoughts and beliefs of those racists and bigots did nothing to harm anyone and therefore, in my opinion, are irrelavent.”

I agree, at least in part. If people deserve moral condemnation, it’s for their actions, not for their thoughts and beliefs. OTOH, people act based on their thoughts and beliefs, so the latter are not irrelevant to the situation as a whole. That’s why it is necessary to bring reason to bear to counter irrational thoughts and beliefs, to encourage people to discard them before they commit evil acts based on them. For example, if parents believe that they should deny their kids necessary medical care because they think some supernatural being is going to intervene and override medical science, then that irrational beliefs should be challenged. When irrationality threatens the lives of the innocent, it’s irresponsible to say that we should just “tolerate” it.

I merely asked whom you meant when you stated that “some on this board are surprised…” From the context, it appeared to be a swipe at Barry and his thread, but that didn’t make sense, since Barry hadn’t expressed surprise about the incident that he brought up. If you meant someone else, please enlighten us.

I agree, at least in part. If people deserve moral condemnation, it’s for their actions, not for their thoughts and beliefs. OTOH, people act based on their thoughts and beliefs, so the latter are not irrelevant to the situation as a whole. That’s why it is necessary to bring reason to bear to counter irrational thoughts and beliefs, to encourage people to discard them before they commit evil acts based on them. For example, if parents believe that they should deny their kids necessary medical care because they think some supernatural being is going to intervene and override medical science, then that irrational beliefs should be challenged. When irrationality threatens the lives of the innocent, it’s irresponsible to say that we should just “tolerate” it.

But, once again, the belief that some parents hold that they should deny their kids necessary medical care because they think some ‘‘supernatural being’’ is going to intervene and override medical science is not a problem. Rather it is the action of denying said care that some people would have a problem with. In this particular example, who is to say the parents are wrong? You? Me? The State?

Of course, since I seem to be questioning something the majority hold to be absolute, I await the diatribe of hate and name calling from the almighty BarryP.

Yes, I need to edit my edit my wording is very poor. You are correct Barry did not show surprise. He showed nothing, added no value or comments simply posted a terd and waited.

He was surprised when a few read it and and reacted with a Ya there are wacko’s (Again I will use wacko’s anyone who sends hate mail for people acting appropriately in my book is a wacko.) I was mearly trying to point out that sending hate mail to a couple is pretty mild wackoism compared to what else happens in this country. And since Barry has already stated he was shocked becouse in his crowd this stuff does not happen (the hate mail) I thought I would further enlight him to what the rest of the country is really like.

If an irrational belief causes one to commit an irresponsible act that endangers others, it IS a problem. That may not mean that we condemn people based on the belief itself, but we should certainly attempt to persuade them to rethink that belief.

If I saw you getting ready to shoot someone whom you believed was a dangerous criminal and I knew it was actually an innocent party, wouldn’t you want me to try to correct your mistaken belief? Would you expect me to remain silent in order to be “tolerant”?

You’re probably correct that more severe instances of overt racism/bigotry still happen. Not that the worse instances justify the milder ones, as I hope we would both agree.

Well the principle wanted them expelled.

My understanding was that the principal DID expel them, but the superintendent overruled that.

“The surprise was that many slowtwitchers were more concerned about them making the event public and “getting what they deserved”.”

Who expressed such concern and whom are you quoting?

“My understanding was that the principal DID expel them, but the superintendent overruled that.”

At last! A slowtwitcher who can not only correctly spell “principal” in this context, but “superintendent” too. :wink:

Bruce Wayne,

 It appears you intend to turn this into a "bash BarryP" thread, yet your only insult is that I call bigotry when I see it.  You have every opportunity to respond to the bigotry or to not respond at all, yet you find it more important to condemn me for pointing out the ills of society.  I draw comparisons to you and Rush Limbaugh, but I wouldn't know where to draw the line.  If you don't understand why the comparison should be apparent, then maybe you should really think long and hard about perceptions. 

 Here we have yet another example of a thread about racism and you attempt to deflect it into a thread about "those terrible people who cry bigotry."  I can't help but wonder why this is the battle you wish to fight. 

 Re - your comments on thoughts: Thoughts drive actions.  If people think racism is ok, then racial acts will be ok.  Again, you seemed to be more concerned with someone writting that they "think bigots are deplorable" than the people writting "here's my biggoted thoughts." 

 Again, I wonder what your motivations are.

**If an irrational belief causes one to commit an irresponsible act that endangers others, it IS a problem. That may not mean that we condemn people based on the belief itself, but we should certainly attempt to persuade them to rethink that belief. **

I guess I just don’t buy the notion that irrational belief causes people to commit actions that endanger others. Stupidity, mental imbalance, or complete lack of regard for human life yes, but not simply an irrationaly belief. I also think there is a huge difference between trying to educate someone, in an attempt to alter thier beliefs, and condemning them for having those thoughts. If I believe that fat people are lazy and you attempt to educate me on some type of medical evidence that would prove my thoughts incorrect, that is fine. But if, because I hold those beliefs, you condemn me for being predjudiced against fat people (even though I have not acted on those beliefs), then you would be just as I am; would you not?

If I saw you getting ready to shoot someone whom you believed was a dangerous criminal and I knew it was actually an innocent party, wouldn’t you want me to try to correct your mistaken belief? Would you expect me to remain silent in order to be “tolerant”?

This is a little bit of a stretch, as I would not be in the position to shoot someone just because they were a dangerous criminal. Said person would have to have the ability to cause immediate harm to me or someone else before an action like that could take place. But to play along, if I COULD articulate an immediate threat to my life or the life of another, why would your opinion outweigh mine? Why, if I truely believed that this person posed such a threat, would my actions be intolerant or irrational?

You are correct Barry did not show surprise. He showed nothing, added no value or comments simply posted a terd and waited.


Your OP:

"Hopefully you are aware of the Jena story, but either way read this and then tell me based on all the views opinions and facts stated that you can tell what the truth is.

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/black_high_school_students_louisiana_threatened_lynching "

My OP:

"BOISE, Idaho (AP) – The Boise State running back who scored the winning points in the Fiesta Bowl, then proposed to his cheerleader girlfriend on national television, says he has hired security for their wedding because of racial threats.
Ian Johnson, who is black, and Chrissy Popadics, who is white, are due to be married Saturday in Boise.

Since his Jan. 1 proposal, Johnson said, he has received phone calls, letters and some personal threats from people who object to their marriage plans."


Thank you so much for correcting me on forum protocol. Aparently posting an excerpt from an article is “laying a turd” but if you add a sentence asking readers to see who is telling the truth shines that turd up real nice, doesn’t it.

BW, you seem to be yet another radical who “doesn’t care what people think” who spends an awful lot of time posting in the LR.