I don’t hate him, I’m just not a fan. Hate is way too strong a word. Do I want to see him win another Tour? No, because I’d rather see someone else win. But that doesn’t mean I hate him.
The funny thing here is that if you don’t grovel at the altar of the great god Lance, somebody will automatically accuse you of hating him. Does that mean you hate AC if you don’t grovel before him? Refusing to root for someone doesn’t mean you hate them.
I just don’t like to see the Lance-worship go unchallenged, especially when he has made himself out to be the alpha and omega.
The kicker to me was that he was completely unable to acknowledge that Ullrich (et al) waited for him in 2003 after he went down on the Luz Ardiden stage. That’s the reason I don’t root for him.
Are you sure about that? It was actually Tyler Hamilton, who went to the front of the main GC group and asked them to ride piano until Lance got back on - then they all kinda eased up. Mayo was the animator - once they did re-group( yes Mayo went down as well, but was not as banged up or delayed as much as Lance was), and I think that Lance was a bit pissed off with him, that while Lance was struggling to re-group at the back, Mayo kept surging off the front of the group.
Still, Armstrong showed a lot of class that day, when on the attack, and clearly digging deep within himself, he passed the struggling Sylvain Chavenal, who they had all been chasing, and as Lance went by, gave Chavenal a way-to-go pat on the back and encouraged him to keep going.
Posts like this really elucidate the fact that team Slowtwitch knows very little about the team sport of cycling. Not that I’m an expert, but after racing for a number of years with my team; I’m pretty amazed at all of this talk about individuals in a team event. Really, although the Time Trial is an important part of some road races, - what is done on a bike in a triathlon has little to do with road bike racing. Overemphasizing any individual, especially someone who didn’t race on the pro circuit, gets to be a bit much. I don’t think that people hate Lance as much as they hate people who don’t understand the team nature of the sport; worshipping the guy. It’s not that the Beatles weren’t amazing, but it was the 70 billion in the mob blowing them out of proportion.
Tyler was well behind Ullrich at the time of the crash and never would have caught Jan had Jan not pulled up as well. Jan was stronger than Tyler that day and has repeatedly said that he was told on the radio that Lance was down and he eased up. Tyler was the dramatic one, but everybody waited because … that’s what you do in cycling when the yellow jersey goes down. My point is that Lance had to go out of his way when being interviewed by Phil Liggett to claim that nobody really slowed down and to take unnecessary shots at Ullrich; he was completely unable to be gracious about the whole thing (perhaps because he doesn’t want to acknowledge anybody else’s contribution). He could have just said “jan slowed and waited, as did everybody else because that’s how we do things.” But he couldn’t do it, because it would somehow make him a little less heroic.
The guy sees the world in black and white, so he can’t acknowledge a little gray.
There was the ridiculous episode with Pantani in 2000 as well.
Still, Armstrong showed a lot of class that day, when on the attack, and clearly digging deep within himself, he passed the struggling Sylvain Chavenal, who they had all been chasing, and as Lance went by, gave Chavenal a way-to-go pat on the back and encouraged him to keep going.
Dude, did that ever happen to you in a race? I’m sure it has! And how did it feel? (Chavanel btw)
A. Ahhh, I’m great, I get some love and deep respect. Life is good.
B. Fucking bastard. I can obviously not keep up with you. Leave me the fuck alone!
Dude, did that ever happen to you in a race? I’m sure it has! And how did it feel? (Chavanel btw)
I have been the giver of the encouragement on many occasions, when passing people, friends and fellow competitors who are clearly struggling - I have always been of the opinion that it’s the gentlemanly and sportsmen-like thing to do. So when I see others doing it, even the greats, I respect that.
I have been the recipient as well. And it is always nice to get that encouragement from even your toughest competitors when you are really struggling.
“There was the ridiculous episode with Pantani in 2000 as well.”
Don’t forget the 2005 incident involving Floyd. I was at the Tour de Georgia that year and I remember how LA showed out on Brasstown Bald, pointing and showing up Floyd when he finished the stage ahead of him. IIRC, that’s the day Danielson took the leader’s jersey from Floyd. LA made a big deal out of it – it was obvious there was something personal going on with Floyd because Floyd left Discovery for Phonak. Very childish.
Ullrich waited but shouldn’t have. Because regardless of how many people drank the Kool-Aid after 2001, Lance never waited for Ullrich. With two mountains still to climb, sure, he waited. But not for Ullrich. For anyone–Lance wasn’t about to ride 40k and two mountains alone. And as soon as Beloki and Kivilev went by he jumped on. Ullrich and Livingston worked together to bring them back.
Then in 2004, Lance and USPS attacked not only a race favorite (Mayo) but also the Yellow Jersey (Hushovd) when they crashed on Stage 3.
This is such a tired conversation. His doctor Michele Ferrari was one of the biggest suppliers of dope to the pro cycling community. Is Lance his only clean customer???
This is such a tired conversation. His doctor Michele Ferrari was one of the biggest suppliers of dope to the pro cycling community. Is Lance his only clear customer???
I corrected your post.
You don’t have to understand cycling to know how much Lance means to the sport. Energizing the USA is huge! And creating awareness for cancer research and treatment is just so much more than cycling. But as usual good athletes polarize people. Lots of people hated Jordan…
There are plenty more out there who no matter the subject matter, seem to vent their hatred for Lance. Who else you got?
Lemond. Hate, hate, hate, hate!!!
Because by only riding the TDF, - it effectively made him a non-participant in road racing.
I’m actually really impressed with Lance’s second career as a bicycle racer instead of a TDF racer. And, there’s a big difference now that he’s not spending a whole year riding the TDF course; but out there mixing it up with bicycle racers. He’s now gone down at least 3 times and that’s a part of team racing that few here seem to understand; other than the most critical thing; if your team sucks, so will you…
Reading this thread is like going to Bono for political insight. Guess all you want but the only thing you really know for sure is that he never tested positive. Opinion does not make it true. Until he tests positive he is not guilty and therefore, in the US system, innocent.
PS he knows everyone waited for him to get off the ground.
Look, the fact that he’s never tested positive means that nobody can strip him of titles or awards. But it doesn’t mean I have to think he’s innocent. I am perfectly entitled to come to my own conclusions based upon the circumstantial evidence, and much of that points to doping. The lack of a positive test proves nothing; its just one piece of evidence in his favor. There are many other pieces of evidence that indicate he did dope; I choose to believe the combined weight of those pieces of evidence.
In a 2003 interview with Phil Liggett on OLN he explictly stated that he didn’t think Ullrich waited for him. He credited Hamilton with getting the front group to eventually slow down, but made it clear that he did not think Ullrich would have slowed had it not been for Tyler. He never did address how Tyler could have caught Jan if he hadn’t already slowed himself.
