Well I think he said at the beginning, that the countries picked is not comprehensive. I didn’t see Argentia, Brazil and I believe all of South America in there.
I would be interested in the number per 100,000 for UAE. I bet that is pretty deccent, but then again, the majority of Dubai and Abu Dhabi based racers may show up under home country passports, so it would under represent the ecosystem for triathlon in the UAE.
I think it actually does. In IM WC Nice years people decide to do Challange Roth instead.
Is that anecdotal based on your own conversations with people or something you read someplace? Does that imply in Kona years Roth has fewer participants? I suppose that could be teased out if such a correlation exists.
Cunning idea, but Roth sells out in hours (?minutes) so I suspect that the venue of the following year’s IMWC is not a factor when athletes are pressing that ‘Enter/Pay’ button ( €679 Euros) the previous July (day after Roth).
Yeah I wouldn’t think so either, arguably Roth is almost as iconic as Kona.
Yes, 30 seconds for I think 5000 athletes with more than 20000 trying at the moment of closing.
It’s anecdotal, Roth always sells out in minutes, sometimes in seconds. Kona or not, it doesn’t matter.
But please take a step back and consider what we’re debating.
A) if we’re debating that Ironman events sell out less if it’s not Kona, then it’s rightful to consider that the market for long course and middle course isn’t limited to Ironman only. The Challenge Family is strong in Europe, and their races could be a good alternative.
B) if we’re debating full IMs and IM WC participation specifically, then anecdotally I see that people are less willing to chase for the qualification. Most of the people I know (triathlon club with 350 members) do 1 max 2 full distance races a year, saving money and saving vital energy. Once you need to pick and choose, and the Nice option isn’t so sexy, you won’t even try to qualify and look for other good options.
C) if we’re debating about the upper comment of participation numbers North America vs Europe, then I brought the argument of Challenge Family having a substantial portion of the market, especially in Europe. If you analyze people fluctuations, it’s important to acknowledge that Ironman doesn’t operate in a vacuum.
well the facts show this year roth had by far the most sub nine athletes ever , while the male race was in kona . a lot more sub 9 s than last year when i m worlds where in nice …
Regarding A, I don’t think Nice or Kona locations has a material impact on registrations down stream. There is such a large cohort of people who just love racing the distance and have no WC aspirations. It’s great to see Europe has such a strong full distance culture.
B, I’m sorry are you saying in your club people are less interested in chasing a Nice qualification than Kona?
C. Yes, 100%
Roth may fly under the Challenge banner, but Felix could do it without Challenge. I don’t think the association brings much to the table for him. It would be interesting to see the registrations of other races and when they sell out.
when they left the ironman umbrella ,they lost a lot of customers, and lost money for a few years , but unlike ironman who seems to waver. they went through the dark days ,and belived in the growth, to bcome once again an iconic race outside the ironman brand …
sometimes in order to get bigger you have to get smaller first …
and as i say this is really what i think ironman has to ask itself , hang on to the past or if they want to grow they might have to suffer a bit .
unless they are sure to get a 2 day world champ in kona for good .
More importantly, an additional point of debate is whether having more WC slots, regardless of where it takes place, keeps more people in the sport/ IM distance.
I’m inclined to say it does not. My gut feeling is that the majority are either people are in it for the lifestyle or one and done. The overall percentage of WC aspirants chasing slots is likely fairly small. The longevity of the brand is in making that experience unique and special enough to develop repeat customers. I think DuRue will be good at that.
As usual, a great take by pk. Ironically, they probably chose Nice because of its rich history (thinking it may get to iconic status quicker than other locations) but Ironman themselves are responsible for making Nice just another Ironman in the last 20 years or so, when before that it was more iconic.
But as you said, the main reason many only want Kona is because of the history of it being THE IM World Championship. It’ll take time for Nice to catch up in this regard and I think a company like IM may not show the necessary patience.
Otherwise, Nice has Kona beat for most other things (course, location, accomodation, food, etc).
Private equity can be a cruel mistress.
From what I see the number of 70.3 and overall participants has gone up globally since they started moving the event around the world in 2014. Not sure if the numbers went up even higher after they went to the two day format for worlds. But 70.3 attracts a slightly different group of people who want to do endurance sport but cannot or will not invest the training effort that Ironman takes away from work and families, so you may be right that increasing worlds slots for the full distance may not further grow the 140.6 distance. My hunch is more slots allows for more races with a reasonable number of slots that the slot totals are meaningful enough so that people have “HOPE”. If you enter a 2000 person race with 30 slots maybe only 100 people think they can qualify. If you have 50 slots, probably 400 people THINK they have hope. That extra number MAY be meaningful for retention.
For 70.3 if you don’t qualify this week, you can go to another race in two weeks, a month, 2 months etc. This is not possible with an Ironman for those attracted by a worlds slot. It’s race and qualify or wait till next year and try again.
I want to do Kona bc it’s where the IM first started. Being the WC is a bonus secondary reason in my pursuit of getting there. This is why I turned down a Nice slot. I don’t have any desire to spend double for a race that I can pay half for earlier in the year.
i take it you are aware that ironman did not start in kona .
That is painfully pedantic.
Meh that doesn’t matter much. It’s the Hawaiian nature of the event that gets me into it