The Bondi X: The Bondi has been rehabilitated

Triathlon Forum
1

here’s the bad news. this is a $200 shoe. and if you’re going to buy it anyway, you have to wait until october. but here’s the good news. the bondi is back, and better than ever at least for my feet. i wrote about it on our front page. i’ve been in it the last month. it’s just a terrific shoe.

but as i wrote, there’s a lot about this shoe that’s really great other than the carbon plate. i suspect this shoe without the carbon plate would be a spitload better than the bondi 7. anyway, for those who’ve been asking about what shoe to get next if fit the bondi profile but are not happy with the bondi 7, this is it.

2

I’ve had 2 pairs of Bondis (6s) and they had a nice, if uninspiring ride.

The thing is, that they were SLOW AS MUD. Seriously, that bad. Like so bad that even though I’m only in my mid-40s, I assumed that I was hitting my big age-related slowdown since my paces at all speeds were off by 30sec/mile, sometimes 40sec/mile.

Then I bought a pair of Endorphin Speeds. Instantly faster by 20sec/mile, sometimes 30sec/mile compared to the Bondis for the same effort. I was SUPER happy with that, as it turns out that big pace slowdown I experienced was entirely due to the Bondis. (It even shows up in my Strava, when you see the paces plummet the moment I stop rotating out the Bondis for faster shoes.)

A few months later I got the Vaporflys 2021. WOW. Another 10sec/mile speed gain, for 30-50sec/mile faster than the Bondi at all paces. Yes, it really is that big of a difference.

I also have a pair of ‘maxi’ shoes, the Saucony Triump, which weight similar to the Bondi6s, and they, while still not speedy, are a good 10sec/mi faster than the Bondis on average.

My Bondis have been literally so slow that they’ve worked their way out of my shoe rotation completely - they’re just sitting in my closet as a backup shoe that I never use except for literally the slowest of recovery runs.

Hopefully the new Bondi isn’t such a slog to run in.

3

I’ve had 2 pairs of Bondis (6s) and they had a nice, if uninspiring ride.

The thing is, that they were SLOW AS MUD. Seriously, that bad. Like so bad that even though I’m only in my mid-40s, I assumed that I was hitting my big age-related slowdown since my paces at all speeds were off by 30sec/mile, sometimes 40sec/mile.

Then I bought a pair of Endorphin Speeds. Instantly faster by 20sec/mile, sometimes 30sec/mile compared to the Bondis for the same effort. I was SUPER happy with that, as it turns out that big pace slowdown I experienced was entirely due to the Bondis. (It even shows up in my Strava, when you see the paces plummet the moment I stop rotating out the Bondis for faster shoes.)

A few months later I got the Vaporflys 2021. WOW. Another 10sec/mile speed gain, for 30-50sec/mile faster than the Bondi at all paces. Yes, it really is that big of a difference.

I also have a pair of ‘maxi’ shoes, the Saucony Triump, which weight similar to the Bondi6s, and they, while still not speedy, are a good 10sec/mi faster than the Bondis on average.

My Bondis have been literally so slow that they’ve worked their way out of my shoe rotation completely - they’re just sitting in my closet as a backup shoe that I never use except for literally the slowest of recovery runs.

Hopefully the new Bondi isn’t such a slog to run in.

i tried the endorphins. i just don’t find them soft enough, or supportive enough for my own running. but you’re right about the bondi. however, not this bondi. this is a fast shoe, for its size. this is the shoe for guys like me. but that’s the caveat. if you an run in a saucony endorphin speed, or a nike anything, you can run in a HOKA mach 4. that’s your training shoe. it would be my training shoe if i was 15 pounds lighter, but, alas…

4

I train in the Bondi 6 and lately have been racing in the Nike Zoom flys and that combination has placed me on the podium in all five triathlons I’ve done this year (3 local and 2 70.3). I also got a Boston qualifying time in March and of course a high finish in the 100 100s earlier this year with them. Before switching to the Bondi for training I would have told you my running days were over or soon to be. I’m now looking to try the Endorphin Speed or Pro for the 70.3 WC as I’ve read and hear better things about them than the Nike. And I’ll watch for the Bondi X to come out this fall based upon your recommendation (which is also the reason I switched to the Bondi). Keep running!

5

thanks, that’s likely true - I bet I could get away with training on the Mach4.

While most of my biomechanics are still good, my ankles are MRI-confirmed arthritic, and if I run more than 40mpw, they start to really ache. Or if I run downhills too long, for too hard. So I’m biting the bullet and sacrificing my training speed on all but my fastest days by using cushioned shoes to brunt the blow of the impact.

I only wear the Endorphins on my speedwork days, but knock on wood so far they haven’t left me hobbling or even sore after even a hard session.

Haven’t tried the Mach4 yet but have heard good things. Too many good shoes nowadays to try out!

6

Slightly off topic: Talking with my little sister at lunch on Monday. Nurses really like HOKA shoes for work. She has two pair. A male nurse she works with bought a used pair for her and spent a long time cleaning them- I think he was looking to get into a shoe rehab business. It turned out to be too much work, but he gave the pair to my sister. She bought another pair used from Ebay or something. Her favorite work shoes.

7

Slightly off topic: Talking with my little sister at lunch on Monday. Nurses really like HOKA shoes for work. She has two pair. A male nurse she works with bought a used pair for her and spent a long time cleaning them- I think he was looking to get into a shoe rehab business. It turned out to be too much work, but he gave the pair to my sister. She bought another pair used from Ebay or something. Her favorite work shoes.

i believe this is why you see certain HOKA models made in all black and/or all white. medical people. restaurant workers. postal workers. anybody who’s on his feet all day. my dad. 82. bad legs. HOKA wearer.

8

here’s the bad news. this is a $200 shoe. and if you’re going to buy it anyway, you have to wait until october. but here’s the good news. the bondi is back, and better than ever at least for my feet. i wrote about it on our front page. i’ve been in it the last month. it’s just a terrific shoe.

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we’ve got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

9

here’s the bad news. this is a $200 shoe. and if you’re going to buy it anyway, you have to wait until october. but here’s the good news. the bondi is back, and better than ever at least for my feet. i wrote about it on our front page. i’ve been in it the last month. it’s just a terrific shoe.

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we’ve got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

well, here’s the flip side of that. the Mach 4 is a $129 shoe. i would run in this shoe, as my everyday shoe, in a minute, if i just was 15 or 20 pounds lighter. if the bondi 8 were the bondi x without the carbon plate, i can almost guarantee you that would be my shoe. what i don’t know is what the uncarbonated bondi will be, when the next version is let out of its cage. because, i’m almost sure the other new features in this shoe are 80 percent of what i like about this shoe.

10

Sounds like it could be a solid shoe for plodding tank like myself. I personally enjoyed the Bondi 6 as I’ve stated previously. Wish I had bought a second! I ran in the Bondi B re-issue and it just didn’t work for me. Haven’t gotten a chance to check out the Carbon X or Carbon X2 personally.

You give a much nicer description of the “new” foam than Road Trail Run does. They’re literally like “they said it was new foam, but then they told us it was still EVA and didn’t do anything else to it”.

I wish Hoka would be far more descriptive about it if they’re calling it “NEW FOAM”. Again, sounds fun, price seems kinda steep, but in line with Rocket X and CarbonX2.

11

Sounds like it could be a solid shoe for plodding tank like myself. I personally enjoyed the Bondi 6 as I’ve stated previously. Wish I had bought a second! I ran in the Bondi B re-issue and it just didn’t work for me. Haven’t gotten a chance to check out the Carbon X or Carbon X2 personally.

You give a much nicer description of the “new” foam than Road Trail Run does. They’re literally like “they said it was new foam, but then they told us it was still EVA and didn’t do anything else to it”.

I wish Hoka would be far more descriptive about it if they’re calling it “NEW FOAM”. Again, sounds fun, price seems kinda steep, but in line with Rocket X and CarbonX2.

as you know, eva is ethyl vinyl acetate. PEBA is polyether block amide. Boost is thermoplastic polyurethane (eTPU). i think some of the shoe media is ready to move on from EVA. but i don’t care if it’s made out of crepe paper. i only run on it. i don’t cook or fingerpaint with it. the EVA in these latest HOKA models is clearly superior to the EVA in prior models. why do i care what it’s made out of? i’ve put at least 10 runs of more than an hour each into these Bondi Xs, and they are still as lively as the first day i laced them up. so, these shoes have both the run quality i want, and the foam exhibits pretty good longevity (so far).

12

Sounds like a fun time!

13

Slightly off topic: Talking with my little sister at lunch on Monday. Nurses really like HOKA shoes for work. She has two pair. A male nurse she works with bought a used pair for her and spent a long time cleaning them- I think he was looking to get into a shoe rehab business. It turned out to be too much work, but he gave the pair to my sister. She bought another pair used from Ebay or something. Her favorite work shoes.

i believe this is why you see certain HOKA models made in all black and/or all white. medical people. restaurant workers. postal workers. anybody who’s on his feet all day. my dad. 82. bad legs. HOKA wearer.

The Goth Runners and Triathletes Club looks at you with disdain for suggesting the all black HOKA was not made specifically for them!

14

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we’ve got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

PC gamer here. Been trying to buy a $1000 video card since October. Still trying…

15

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we’ve got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

Expensive shoes were always expensive relative to everything. If you’re looking for deals there are tons of discount retailers that carry the mainline brands: Ross, Marshalls, Burlington Coat Factory. Do they carry tech runner shoes, not at all. But if you want running to be cheap you can keep it cheap. Just have to change where you shop :D.

16

here’s the bad news. this is a $200 shoe. and if you’re going to buy it anyway, you have to wait until october. but here’s the good news. the bondi is back, and better than ever at least for my feet. i wrote about it on our front page. i’ve been in it the last month. it’s just a terrific shoe.

urgh, this is one of my least favourite trends in the sport these days. running at least used to be cheap, but now we’ve got shoes that are both super-expensive and placed on waiting lists . . .

well, here’s the flip side of that. the Mach 4 is a $129 shoe. i would run in this shoe, as my everyday shoe, in a minute, if i just was 15 or 20 pounds lighter. if the bondi 8 were the bondi x without the carbon plate, i can almost guarantee you that would be my shoe. what i don’t know is what the uncarbonated bondi will be, when the next version is let out of its cage. because, i’m almost sure the other new features in this shoe are 80 percent of what i like about this shoe.

oh, i get it. and i still run a lot of my miles in saucony peregrines and kinvaras that i get on clearance for a song. but even then, i went and bought a pair of (nylon, not carbon!) endorphins out of pure curiosity. so i’m part of the problem.

the gear is certainly getting better, and there’s certainly much more choice. but between a $1000 GPS watch, $300 carbon shoes, and so on . . . i do sort of miss the simpler times. (and i’m barely 40!)

17

The thing is, that they were SLOW AS MUD. Seriously, that bad. Like so bad that even though I’m only in my mid-40s, I assumed that I was hitting my big age-related slowdown since my paces at all speeds were off by 30sec/mile, sometimes 40sec/mile.

Is that the only issue with the Bondi? From a training standpoint that’s not much of a problem, as long as you have other shoes for races or speed sessions.

18

Sounds like a great shoe to use on the treadmill. I really enjoyed using the Bondi’s on my easier, long treadmill runs and the carbon plate will make it even better. I almost bought a pair of Vaporflys just for the treadmill. I’m a huge fan of soft surface running though, especially being around 180lb

I did roll my ankle using the Bondi’s and suffered an avulsion fracture on my 5th metatarsal last year running outside. Then again, I live in a new england suburb and the sidewalks get pretty beat up, so I blame myself more than the shoes

19

The thing is, that they were SLOW AS MUD. Seriously, that bad. Like so bad that even though I’m only in my mid-40s, I assumed that I was hitting my big age-related slowdown since my paces at all speeds were off by 30sec/mile, sometimes 40sec/mile.

Is that the only issue with the Bondi? From a training standpoint that’s not much of a problem, as long as you have other shoes for races or speed sessions.

It’s actually not the only issue with the Bondi. I also have found that if at least for me, as a triathlete that doesn’t run much more than 30 mpw on average, if I use the Bondi for even just half of those miles, I start losing my leg-impact resistance. Which means that the moment I switch to a race shoe, and run even normal distances not at particularly faster paces, my legs start feeling the beatdown. Especially on anything downhill.

It’s very similar to someone who only trains exclusively on a soft treadmill and then goes and races on the road with not enough road-specific miles off the treadmill. You’ll definitely feel the beatdown, and if it’s a longer race, you may drop way off pace as your quads can’t take the beating.

I intentionally offset this (successfully) now by making sure I get enough miles not in the Bondi, but also on a long route with a sufficiently steep long downhill so my legs can stay impact-ready for the distances I’m training for.

If you’re however running megamiles like marathon-specific training, though, this is less of any issue depending on how many miles you’re putting in. At some point, especially over 70mpw, it’s more important to preserve the body against injury-impact (but still continue muscular endurance) than to continue overloading it for impact.

I’ve stopped using the Bondi for my originally intended long runs because I was noticing specifically this weakness as a lower-mileage running triathlete. I use it exclusively for recovery days now, your mileage may vary! (I still use the Saucony Triumph maxi shoes for long run - they aren’t speedy either, but I get a bit more road impact, enough not to hurt my arthritic joints, but still get enough leg beatdown.)

20

Thanks

Most of my running these days has been rather slow and easy.

I alternate between Altras and Hokas, and I’m looking forward to the Bondi X.