So I'm in the market for a new road bike. I've been riding a 2005 Raleigh Supercourse since, well '05. I know there is a lot of love for the CAAD line of bikes as well as the Dual. But then I came across this bike. It got me thinking about the prices of the "brand name" bikes. What are the differences in the aluminum frames that make it possible for Trek (or Specialized, Cervelo, etc) to charge the prices they do when the bike I found is so much less expensive?
I'm not flaming the big companies or trying to shame anyone who has purchased one of those bikes. I'm generally interested as I know nothing of R&D, welding, marketing and such.
Any thoughts?
trav
P.S. I’m not sold on any one bike yet so recommendations are appreciated. I don’t race the road bike it is strictly for training.
Not sure if an older Cervelo counts, but I ride a pretty souped-up Cervelo One that has Zipp 650’s on them. I can definitely shred against the carbons/big names in the slightly better than average age groupers. I have ridden a few higher end carbons and it’s definitely a different ride but I don’t know if it’s worth the extra 1-2k in price. Im sure if you are riding hills all day, each pound does matter eventually but a heavier bike makes you big and strong anyways.
My tri bike is actually carbon. The roads I train on (no hills; I have none near me) are so crappy I really can’t tell a difference in the ride quality. I’m just curious if there are different grades of aluminum, different methods of building an aluminum frame, is one safer than the other, etc. I was just shocked at the differences in price is all.
trav
Yes, there are different grades of aluminum. Typically the tradeoff is strength vs. elongation (the engineering term for how much a material will stretch before it fails completely). All aluminum alloys have more or less the same *stiffness *(modulus of elasticity – two bars of the same dimensions and same modulus will deflect by the same amount); however, a stronger alloy allows one to make a larger tube with a thinner wall and have some combination of higher strength/higher stiffness/lower weight. Of course, there is a limit to how thin one can make the walls before buckling becomes a concern.
different methods of building an aluminum frame
Not really different methods, since all aluminum frames are welded together. Some alloys require heat-treatment after welding, some don’t, so that factors into the total cost. There are, however, significant differences in the tube shapes between cheap and more expensive. Typically cheaper frames will have round tubes, often butted so they’re thicker at the ends where they need more strength but thinner in the middle to save weight. More expensive frames nowadays mostly seem to use some type of hydroformed tubing, which allows engineers to better optimize the strength in different directions or in different areas of the tube or frame. And that’s really what you’re paying for with a more expensive frame – the engineering behind it, the optimization, in some cases even wind-tunnel testing. Of course, there’s surely some name brand price inflation going on as well.
is one safer than the other, etc.
Unlikely.
Although I did not understand 73% of what you said I appreciate the answer. I’ll spend the next few days analyzing it and researching it. The safety issue is what I was after most I think so really, thank you. With all of the threads regarding Chinese carbon frames I was just curious as to how companies can make basically the same bike with aluminum but charge very different prices.
trav
Many of us feel the components are a bigger deal than the frame. A $300 bike might have a frame that is fine, maybe a bit heavy, not the stiffest but probably you never notice…but might have a really goofy drivetrain that is a pain, or hard to upgrade and work with.
Although I did not understand 73% of what you said I appreciate the answer. I’ll spend the next few days analyzing it and researching it. The safety issue is what I was after most I think so really, thank you. With all of the threads regarding Chinese carbon frames I was just curious as to how companies can make basically the same bike with aluminum but charge very different prices.
trav
The feedback I got about the caad was the ride was excellent, lightweight similar to carbon.
Price is excellent too.
For aluminum its main rival would be Specialized Allez but it goes for more $$ for similar spec’s
Minor point some Al frames are glued together but thats getting rarer than in the past. Still one year the “hot” frame was the glued TREK aluminum frame
Not sure about this particular frame, but I own a carbon Aerocat (the R505 I believe is the model). Solid, solid bike and Aerocat has great customer service. Didn’t know the Alu frames were so cheap, sounds like a great deal.
I’ll try and clear up what asad said, differences between aluminum frame(sets):
- material - 6066 v. 7005 or even more exotic aluminum alloys
- butting - essentially where you put material can effect ride quality and weight
- tube shape - aerodynamics, and again ride quality
- extras - tapered headtubes, oversized bottom brackets
- nicer forks/headsets/addons like stems and seatposts
There are probably 3 really highly touted aluminum frames
- Cervelo Soloist
- Cervelo P3sl
- Caad10
I think to some extent premium alloy frames are overhyped(and I ride one) but it seems to make the Caad10 sheep sleep better at night to keep bleating on about their “lightweight” 1250 gram frame, or their “inexpensive” $1550 Shimano 105 equipped aluminum bike.
I haven’t ridden the more recent CAAD10 frames, but I did used to have a CAAD3 bike and it’s still my favourite road bike of the ~8 or so I’ve owned (sadly it went to bike heaven about 8 years ago after an idiot driver took me and it out). Super-fast, super-responsive, it was the most direct and enjoyable riding experience I’ve had. Only problem was that it had also had aluminum forks and very little give in the frame and you really wouldn’t ride it much further than 50 miles unless you were on glass-smooth roads.
I also briefly owned a second-hand CAAD2 that I picked up cheaply as a training bike 5 years ago when I was spending some time over in Geneva. Reinforced to me how fast those frames were, and the chatter was much less of a problem on nice Swiss and French roads. Stupidly, I sold it again when I stopped going out there, rather than bringing it home.
Reading this thread and looking up some recent Cannondale reviews is actually making me wonder whether I should go for a CAAD10 rather than carbon for my next bike!
IMO the CAAD 10 is the is a better frame over something like a standard AL specialized or trek AL bike. There is really no real new technology or much special about those other frames, and I agree that they are over priced. It’s also a bike that many privateer racers use, I’d say it’s the most popular for a reason. I ride a CAAD10-4.
My tri bike is actually carbon. The roads I train on (no hills; I have none near me) are so crappy I really can’t tell a difference in the ride quality. I’m just curious if there are different grades of aluminum, different methods of building an aluminum frame, is one safer than the other, etc. I was just shocked at the differences in price is all.
trav
I have a giant ocr2 road bike and had a trek e7 tri bike. The trek had thick aero snapped tubes and was insanely stiff compared to the giant. I’m sure the carbon grade in the fork may play as well.
What are the differences in the aluminum frames that make it possible for Trek (or Specialized, Cervelo, etc) to charge the prices they do when the bike I found is so much less expensive?
The “Trek” logo.
I have a sub $300 aluminum frame. It seems to do all I need it to.
Thanks everyone for all of the great responses.
Francesco, would you mind giving me an idea of what you paid retail for your carbon Aerocat? You can PM me if you don’t feel comfortable making it public knowledge. Unfortunately I don’t have an Aerocat dealer anywhere near me and the only frame they sell online is the Aluminum. I’ve tried contacting a few dealers but they get kind of jumpy when I start talking about shipping. I feel more at ease buying the aluminum after reading some of these answers but I’m just curious about the carbon frames is all.
Thanks
trav
I’ve ridden the Giant SL1 aluxx bike and it handles like a dream, in addition to being very stiff. It comes stock with full 10speed ultegra - which is bomb proof. I own the high-carbon tcr avanced sl, which provides a little bit of a smoother ride - but I would be lying if I noticed a difference in stiffness or handling. good aluminum bikes are here to stay and can certainly compete with carbon options.
I ride an aluminum Valdora that I bought a year ago for $180 – that was for frame and headset. I built it up with a mix of some new parts, some used parts I bought, and a few more used components I had lying around the house. I managed to complete the build over several weeks for about $700 total. I’ve been very pleased with it.
I ride an aluminum Valdora that I bought a year ago for $180 – that was for frame and headset. I built it up with a mix of some new parts, some used parts I bought, and a few more used components I had lying around the house. I managed to complete the build over several weeks for about $700 total. I’ve been very pleased with it.
That’s awesome! I’ve been slowly buying used parts off of the classifieds, mostly Sram Rival. I’ll probably go with the 105 cranks from Nashbar to keep the black scheme going. This will be my first build; kind of worried about the cableing.
trav
My basebar and brake calipers say “Cervelo” on them. LOL
I ride an aluminum Valdora that I bought a year ago for $180 – that was for frame and headset. I built it up with a mix of some new parts, some used parts I bought, and a few more used components I had lying around the house. I managed to complete the build over several weeks for about $700 total. I’ve been very pleased with it.
That’s awesome! I’ve been slowly buying used parts off of the classifieds, mostly Sram Rival. I’ll probably go with the 105 cranks from Nashbar to keep the black scheme going. This will be my first build; kind of worried about the cableing.
trav
Cabling is a lot easier than one might think. Cabled my first bike last month. With all the info on YouTube, and a friendly bike shop (buy the cable, housing, etc., there) you’ll wonder why you haven’t been doing from the beginning.