I know, “it depends.” Joe Friel’s book says you need to experiment and see what weight you get your best races with.
But you need a starting point right?
In the last 3 months I dropped from about 21% to 10.5% body fat. I’ve been following the desert dude diet and it worked great. Plenty of energy while working out, and I’m still dropping weight.
I’m thinking I should target 7%, but that I should slow down for a while to make sure my body has plenty of time to adapt.
Thoughts?
Who/ how are you measuring your bf% ?
I would say target BF% is the % that allows you to run as fast and efficiently as possible while still having some fat for visceral protection and fuel storage. 10% might be ideal. Nobody here probably measures their BF%, but rather performance.
I’ve been told by some folks I trust that even the best BF measurement techniques are an estimation at best.
I’ve been told by some folks I trust that even the best BF measurement techniques are an estimation at best.
I used calipers… and I completely believe that it’s nothing but a rough approximation. But it seems better than no information at all.
For those who poo-poo BF as a guide… what is the alternative? Just keep losing weight until you start getting slower in races, then gain some more? This seems even more error prone to me.
In the last 3 months I dropped from about 21% to 10.5% body fat. I’ve been following the desert dude diet and it worked great. Plenty of energy while working out, and I’m still dropping weight.
I checked out the desert dude’s set of rules. What garbage.
I checked out the desert dude’s set of rules. What garbage.
Haha, what?
It worked amazingly well for me. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure?
Here are the rules:
**By Desert **Dude strict rules for eating while at the LHPTC. They are as follows:
No eating after 7:30 unless coming back from a late evening workout over 30min. If under 30min you may have 1 gel and a piece of fruit or 1 energy bar.
Dinner is all you can eat, as long as it fits on the coffee saucer the first time. There are no refills in this all you can eat establishment.
Hungry at night? Tough - you should have eaten more throughout the day. Have a glass of water instead of whining. Whiners pay rent irregardless if they trained that day or not.
eat something within 20 min of completing all workouts.
Insure you are taking in adequate calories during your day
Eat a bigger breakfast or lunch if you feel you need more food
Make sure you are fueling properly when in your training sessions.
Still hungry? Pay rent for whining
No eating after 7:30? What if you work the night shift?
“Dinner is all you can eat…” Huh? What about breakfast, lunch, or snacks? Can’t eat those?
Okay.
Good.
What the hell kind of tip is this? Lol.
Meh.
Wow, that tip really helps.
I like the attitude, at least
what is error prone about that?
truly it is the only way to know.
get skinnier until you feel like death, or get slower, or tend to get sick.
you can just look in the mirror if you want an idea of how low your bodyfat is.
For those who poo-poo BF as a guide… what is the alternative? Just keep losing weight until you start getting slower in races, then gain some more? This seems even more error prone to me.
In my opinion (which is worth less then the copper in a 2011 penny.) these two still have a few lbs. To lose.
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Frank+Schleck/Andy+Schleck/Tour+de+France+2009+Stage+Sixteen/bEkPBgDA5Mt
I’ve been told by some folks I trust that even the best BF measurement techniques are an estimation at best.
I used calipers… and I completely believe that it’s nothing but a rough approximation. But it seems better than no information at all.
For those who poo-poo BF as a guide… what is the alternative? Just keep losing weight until you start getting slower in races, then gain some more? This seems even more error prone to me.
Not so much “getting slower in races” - you’d ideally notice it in training before it ever got that far.
I know for me, when me weight gets/got too low, my energy level and recovery go into the crapper, so I know to eat a bit more and bump the weight up smidge.
YMMV.
Lighter is always faster. Until it’s not.
I’ve definitely gotten light enough to where I felt constantly cold/hungry/weak all the time… still continued to improve on running then so I don’t know how much lighter I could have gotten before bottoming out, but swiming & biking performance were already starting to suffer. Don’t know what BF% was, but for reference I’m 6-1 and that was at 163 (several years ago); did my IM more recently at 168, but a more typical summer I weigh 175 or so and 180+ with my ‘winter coat’ on.
What type of races are you actually doing?
Here are the rules:
**By Desert **Dude strict rules for eating while at the LHPTC. They are as follows:
No eating after 7:30 unless coming back from a late evening workout over 30min. If under 30min you may have 1 gel and a piece of fruit or 1 energy bar.
Dinner is all you can eat, as long as it fits on the coffee saucer the first time. There are no refills in this all you can eat establishment.
Hungry at night? Tough - you should have eaten more throughout the day. Have a glass of water instead of whining. Whiners pay rent irregardless if they trained that day or not.
eat something within 20 min of completing all workouts.
Insure you are taking in adequate calories during your day
Eat a bigger breakfast or lunch if you feel you need more food
Make sure you are fueling properly when in your training sessions.
Still hungry? Pay rent for whining
No eating after 7:30? What if you work the night shift?
“Dinner is all you can eat…” Huh? What about breakfast, lunch, or snacks? Can’t eat those?
Okay.
Good.
What the hell kind of tip is this? Lol.
Meh.
Wow, that tip really helps.
I like the attitude, at least
Wow, reading comprehension AND common sense fail.
As for the rest, you’re on your own. I can only spoon feed so much.
John
what is error prone about that?
In the past I’ve felt like death and tended to get sick… while I was 15 pounds overweight.
When losing 20+ pounds I think it’s pretty reasonable to set a body fat goal/target that you’d like to get to. Once you’re in a reasonable range, then you can start questioning your weight every time you feel like crap.
you can just look in the mirror if you want an idea of how low your bodyfat is.
You think this is less error prone than calipers?
What type of races are you actually doing?
Olympic and sprint.
Wow, reading comprehension AND common sense fail.
+1
It’s just a humorously written way of saying: eat plenty of calories, but eat them earlier in the day.
First off, congratulations on losing weight!
I’m not sure how accurately you’re measuring your BF%, because 10% is already pretty damn low and you should already be pretty “ripped”. If you’re not hand washing clothes over your abs you’re not there yet :). The jump from 10 to 7 is insane too, it’s not like going from 13 - 10. Have you ever seen someone at 7% BF? Let’s just say they appear more sick then healthy! IMHO, unless you are genetically predisposed to being skinny or not carrying a lot of fat, I can’t see much of an advantage coming from getting that slim. Maybe peak at that weight for racing, but I wouldn’t try to hold that year round.
Why do you feel you should target 7%? Where did that number come from?
(edit) I just re-read your post. Could you post your starting weight, current weight, height and age, just as some back round info? Dropping from 21 to 10.5% in 3 months seems pretty drastic.
First off, congratulations on losing weight!
Thanks!
I’m not sure how accurately you’re measuring your BF%, because 10% is already pretty damn low and you should already be pretty “ripped”. If you’re not hand washing clothes over your abs you’re not there yet :).
Hahah. Yeah, it’s possibly a bit higher… but I have a feeling it’s close-ish.
The jump from 10 to 7 is insane too, it’s not like going from 13 - 10. Have you ever seen someone at 7% BF? Let’s just say they appear more sick then healthy! IMHO, unless you are genetically predisposed to being skinny or not carrying a lot of fat, I can’t see much of an advantage coming from getting that slim. Maybe peak at that weight for racing, but I wouldn’t try to hold that year round.
I was wondering about that too… what to target year round, vs for A-races.
Why do you feel you should target 7%? Where did that number come from?
Nothing, really… just a guess based on random, untrusted charts from the internet that say things like “5-10%” for marathoners / triathletes. That’s why I was hoping this thread would help me set a less random goal for a starting point… but so far it’s told me to keep losing until I get sick! 
Maybe the point is that once near 10%, you are already at the point where you need to go by feel.
I’ve made a big push to slim-down for this race season. I’m using my FTP as my gauge for when my weight is too low. I have found that as I got lower, my recovery time was worse, and I felt more tired. I’m still gaining watts, and racing faster, so I’m still happy with where I am at. I am starting to get tired enough I"m going to level out my weight (plus it is the end of the season). I’ll use my current BF % as a guide for where I would like to get before the start of next season, which is where knowing your percentage can help (in my opinion)
The big (and maybe only) other reason to measure body composition, is it can give you a much more accurate guide to your BMR, thus you can plan your calorie consumption better. A DEXA scan is the only meaningful way I’ve seen to measure body composition.
(edit) I just re-read your post. Could you post your starting weight, current weight, height and age, just as some back round info? Dropping from 21 to 10.5% in 3 months seems pretty drastic.
Actually, you’re right I just looked at my weight log and 3 months ago I wasn’t as heavy as I thought. But it was close.
Height 6’0"
Age: Upper 30’s
Start: 5/23 183 lbs
End: 9/05 166 lbs