Anybody do IM without tapering - just a week to 10 days easy? I’ve always felt worse race day after trying to taper than I do in training. I’ve been getting some good results this this season pretty much with a day or two rest for events from 30mins to 4hours. Obviously IM is a little different though.
I don’t care for a possible few percentage gain that could be achieved through tapering, I just want to take in the fitness I’ve got.
???
a week to 10 days easy sounds like a taper to me.
The length/degree of tapering will depend on how beat down you are from the big training block. If you are only training 10 hours a week you can probably take 1 easy day before the race.
If you are training 30 hours a week you might need a couple weeks or more of reduced volume.
As Jack said, a week to 10 days easy is a taper.
I’ve always tapered and always found it makes a big difference. I do always find though that I feel worse before I feel better - as I start the taper and the body gets the signal to go into recovery I’ll have a couple of sluggish-feeling days where all I want to do is sleep and eat. Once through that, the energy levels start coming back until by race day I’m bouncing off the walls. Sounds to me like you’re getting your taper wrong and hitting race day while you’re still in that sluggish recovery phase. Suggest starting your taper earlier, and/or doing some short sharp speed work in the last couple of days before the race to tell your body to start getting ready again.
I think that the need to taper is different for everyone. If tapering affects your sleep patterns, eating habits or, like in my case as a type 1 diabetic, your blood sugar control, well maybe too significant of a taper could do more harm than good. Basically, you are asking your body to perform at it’s best when you are taking it out of it’s normal routine.
I once heard Paula Newby-Fraser say that she would eat a big pizza the night before an Ironman. When asked why, she stated that that was her normal Saturday night dinner and she would always have a long training day starting the next morning, so why should she change what her body was used to?
a week to 10 days easy sounds like a taper to me.
The length/degree of tapering will depend on how beat down you are from the big training block. If you are only training 10 hours a week you can probably take 1 easy day before the race.
If you are training 30 hours a week you might need a couple weeks or more of reduced volume.
Yes, for the last push ill peek just under 30 with most being 26-28.
As to whether you need to or not, that really depends on the priority of the race. If its a training race, no. B priority, a short 2 to 3 day taper is fine. If you want to do your best at your target A priority race - then there is no question it is going to help.
Everybody’s energy system is different. For me when I’m on a full 10 day taper if I do short “openers” in the two days before a race it has a huge positive effect. These consist of 4 to 5 short 1 to 2 minute threshold+ anaerobic efforts during whatever easy workout I’m doing. And then day of during warm up I also make sure to get a few short anaerobic intervals in, preferably about 45 minutes before the start.
Some great advice here, and you definitely are not hitting the taper right. There is quite a lot of info on tapers, and some feel the appx 1- 2 week taper you are in effect doing is the worst length. As it is an individual thing, I would really suggest a much longer taper, and a taper is not simply going easy. Intensity is still there, and yes you will feel bad during the taper, but race day is magic when you hit it right.
As Jack said, a week to 10 days easy is a taper.
I’ve always tapered and always found it makes a big difference. I do always find though that I feel worse before I feel better - as I start the taper and the body gets the signal to go into recovery I’ll have a couple of sluggish-feeling days where all I want to do is sleep and eat. Once through that, the energy levels start coming back until by race day I’m bouncing off the walls. Sounds to me like you’re getting your taper wrong and hitting race day while you’re still in that sluggish recovery phase. Suggest starting your taper earlier, and/or doing some short sharp speed work in the last couple of days before the race to tell your body to start getting ready again.
No, I’ve never felt sluggish in taper but have felt that way in the race. That’s why I’m looking at ditching a ‘taper’ and just want or be rested. So little opportunities to try it, such a waste when you get it wrong.
Well there is no time to experiment like the present. Try reducing what you normally do as a taper and see how it works for you.
What is your definition of a taper?
I’ve never quite hit 30 hours of training, but in general I don’t feel like I need much of a taper even when doing 20 hour weeks. Pretty much feel good every day at that workload.
So by all means try less of a taper. It might work. Only one way to find out.
Based on the what you just posted on the watts thread you seem like you are in really good shape on the bike and put a ton of work into this sport. I have tried both and like you are experiencing I always feel better on race day with a very limited taper. I think the key here is that both of us have tried both and found that the limited taper works best for us as individuals and not as the whole triathlon community. I may be wrong but the guys that Preach that “you must always taper” probably have never tried the alternative so I always wonder how do they know what works best for them if the never mix it up? Based on “your experiences” it may work for you! Perhaps the most individualized aspect in our sport is the taper so do what works best for you and not what works best for the most! Just my two cents but my I’ve found your conclusion to be true through my own experience and my girlfriend is coached by a top level coach and she has crushed it this year so far at the 70.3 distance with a 3-4 day taper coming off 22-25 hour training weeks. Again just my two cents!!
reading dean karnazes 50/50 makes you rethink taper. 3:00 marathon in nyc on #50 , of course his intensity was less for the other runs
What is your definition of a taper?
Taper - manipulation if volume, intensity and/or frequency to gain a slight increase in performance. After 5 failed tapers, I no longer want to ‘taper’ but just carry at least my training form into IM
5 iM
I’ve had some strong results in training in events from 30mins to 4hrs this IM build (after my last 2 IM I decided to race more and not put eggs all I bone bucket) in really hard training weeks with nothing but a day or two rest. I’ve been wishing I could start IM feeling that way, but IM is a lot longer and I’m not sure what would happen after 4hrs in IM if no taper only rest was used.
dean is supernatural + im ordinary = not much to gain from him
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I know nothing about IM, only swimming,so take this with a grain of salt, but the sprinters on our squad usually had a longer taper than the distance guys. and taper was never 3 weeks, maybe 2 for the sprinters and 1 for the distance guys. That’s coming off 17-20 hour training weeks not including weights. The first few days of taper was virtually indistinguishable from regular training.
Intensity went UP during taper. i.e. longer rest intervals, faster for not as much distance.
Volume went down, frequency slightly dropped.
We’d work on a lot of starts and turns as well.
Based on the what you just posted on the watts thread you seem like you are in really good shape on the bike and put a ton of work into this sport. I have tried both and like you are experiencing I always feel better on race day with a very limited taper. I think the key here is that both of us have tried both and found that the limited taper works best for us as individuals and not as the whole triathlon community. I may be wrong but the guys that Preach that “you must always taper” probably have never tried the alternative so I always wonder how do they know what works best for them if the never mix it up? Based on “your experiences” it may work for you! Perhaps the most individualized aspect in our sport is the taper so do what works best for you and not what works best for the most! Just my two cents but my I’ve found your conclusion to be true through my own experience and my girlfriend is coached by a top level coach and she has crushed it this year so far at the 70.3 distance with a 3-4 day taper coming off 22-25 hour training weeks. Again just my two cents!!
I guess this is why I’m looking at others experiences. One could say if I’d tapered I’d have done better, but maybe if I’d got the taper wrong (which I feel I always do), I’d have done worse. Last 9 months has seen a change of training approach than first few years with good results. So 2 days prior to that ride, 120km ride, 17k run otb. I also did a 190km ride, vo2max intervals, tempo ride, 2 swims and a few other runs in that week. 6 days later (rest/2 hard training days/ 1 short day, rest) I did a massive PB at a half ironman (bad transitions cost me a 4:15 finish). I’ve never felt so strong with a taper.
I’m not saying taper doesn’t work, the question is if you coach yourself and don’t have the ability to manipulate volume/frequency/intensity correctly over the Last weeks are you better off with just a week easy? I also know IM is a lot different to a 4hr event
Interesting thing to me is I’ve felt flat after some tapers but the week after the race I’ve felt like superman.
I’m starting to think about tapering a week earlier, then the weekend before a race do a normal training weekend. After that do about 80% of my normal week leading into the race.
Going to try it this year
jaretj
Yeah you can get some pretty interesting calculus. Of course it might be the race itself that makes you feel like superman!
For me I always have the complication that my running gets worse within like, hours of not running. So I gotta keep that going but I can just slow down.
Interesting thing to me is I’ve felt flat after some tapers but the week after the race I’ve felt like superman.
I’m starting to think about tapering a week earlier, then the weekend before a race do a normal training weekend. After that do about 80% of my normal week leading into the race.
Going to try it this year
jaretj
I think most people doing IM and HIM races taper way too long. 7-10 days is perfect for these distances assuming there is sufficient training load to back it up. Like others have said, tapering from 10 hours a week down to 7 hours then 3 hours for a two week taper, you’re probably losing fitness faster than you are unloading fatigue, since there isn’t likely much fatigue to be unloaded. For guys doing 20 hours though, 14 hours and 8-10 hours in a two week taper scheme may be more appropriate. I forget where I read it, but somebody wrote that the longer the race, the longer and sharper the taper should be… which just isn’t true. Ask any experienced swim or track coach, and the distance guys start tapering much later than the sprinters and mid-distance guys, and it is far more gradual. Aerobic endurance is a far more transient aspect of fitness than speed or power.