Did he go to 165 on his road bike or just his TT bike?
Remember when Lance went high cadence ‘for efficiency’ meanwhile being sauced to the moon? Just asking
I was watching that and smiling, he is riding in a triathlete position from 40 years ago. He was also sitting towards the nose of his saddle which those shorter cranks allow. I have a suspicion that road bike going forward(as in production) are going to be coming stock with steeper seat angles too.
Of course like LeMonde “inventing” the aero bars way back, I’m sure someone in cycling will take credit for this new position dynamic we have known about for decades…
I believe he is on 165mm for road bike (Tadej not Lance )
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He is pretty well riding in the steep on the nose if saddle (minus aerobars) that slowman was advocating since mid nineties (after you all experimented with it mid 80s post aerobars arrival) . I think the gearing was not there for most age groupers for that style to work so we would tap out in our min gear and sit way back sit up and mash
He’s on 165mm road. Switched to 170 from 172.5 last year. Pretty sure Lance was always on 175s?
Is 165 still considered short? I wonder if a poll was taken on this site if 165 may be average?
For road bikes,165mm is still considered short, especially in the somewhat conservative world of road racing. Most amateurs Tadej’s height probably on the 172.5 specced by the manufacturers on medium sized bikes.
He’s on 165mm road. Switched to 170 from 172.5 last year. Pretty sure Lance was always on 175s?
Was Tadej on 172.5 when he beat Primoz on the Planche Des Belles Filles ITT for this first win in 2020?
Think so (on the road bike after the switch).
Recently listened to the Escape Collective podcast with Nick from Wove. Pogacar has adopted this progressive fit that Nick and others are advocating, other than increasing crank arm length. The move to 165s is an anomaly to this though.
I was watching that and smiling, he is riding in a triathlete position from 40 years ago. He was also sitting towards the nose of his saddle which those shorter cranks allow. I have a suspicion that road bike going forward(as in production) are going to be coming stock with steeper seat angles too.
Of course like LeMonde “inventing” the aero bars way back, I’m sure someone in cycling will take credit for this new position dynamic we have known about for decades…
Adam Hansen (a.k.a., Mr. 20 grand tours in a row) would probably get credit for that on the road side.
I was watching that and smiling, he is riding in a triathlete position from 40 years ago. He was also sitting towards the nose of his saddle which those shorter cranks allow. I have a suspicion that road bike going forward(as in production) are going to be coming stock with steeper seat angles too.
Of course like LeMonde “inventing” the aero bars way back, I’m sure someone in cycling will take credit for this new position dynamic we have known about for decades…
I am just not seeing it
Did you watch the race?? I mean in two pictures you posted, the first one shows the back of the saddle bare, but in the actual ride he often pulled up and was more forward on the saddle. And if you compare to many of the other riders, they cover that back of the saddle, often hanging off of it…
Did you watch the race?? I mean in two pictures you posted, the first one shows the back of the saddle bare, but in the actual ride he often pulled up and was more forward on the saddle. And if you compare to many of the other riders, they cover that back of the saddle, often hanging off of it…
Every single stage. Sitting on the nose like a triathlete is not what I saw.
Maybe if it’s so common, post of pic of it
Yesterday’s stage 6.5km to go, in Jonas’ wheel. Lots of video footage, pretty well all the way to the back of his saddle.
I am just looking to an example where is is on the tip. Not saying it isn’t there, I just can’t find one, but lots where he is not
Well not exactly like a triathlete, but much further forward on the saddle that what we traditionally have seen from the Peloton. I dont ever remember seeing riders climbing long climbs not at the back of their saddles, and often hanging off the back of them…This is a new position, “approaching” a more TT like one, especially with the now new shorter cranks being employed…
I dont ever remember seeing riders climbing long climbs not at the back of their saddles, and often hanging off the back of them…
We’ve never had climbers riding the long climbs at these speeds, either. And riders have never really had gear ratios available to them that would allow for truly self selected gain ratio/leg speed on these climbs. With the convergence of these things, I don’t think it should really be all that surprising that the rider positions on the climbs might begin to look more like they do in other maximal output scenarios.
And riders have never really had gear ratios available to them that would allow for truly self selected gain ratio/leg speed on these climbs.//
I hear people saying this all the time, but what does it mean? When I was racing pro cycling in the early 80’s, I had an option of riding a 40/28 I think it was. Not sure I ever did, usually a 42/25 on hilly courses. Now for sure bike racers were stubborn, and most would choose a 42/19 or 42/21. But that was a choice. I remember in the US pro champs I had that 25 on there, and was able to sit down and spin up the Maniak Wall, while all the other guys were out of the saddle doing the paper boy after the 6th or 7th time up. The only other guy I remember seeing with a gear like mine was Keiffel, and he always looked comfortable sitting down and spinning…
But what gears do they have now the we didnt back then? I mean the ones you actually use? I have to figure with their power numbers that no one is using a 40/28, or are they?? I know you can put on much bigger gears now due to shifting changes in the rear cage size, but do they really use those gears?? Aren’t those 40+'s in the rear for old men like me? I really dont know, just wondering what it means that there are better gear ratios now vs the old days…
I couldn’t find anything specific on TP’s gearing for stage 15. Earlier his road bike was shown with 11/34 and 55/40. I want to say I saw somewhere else him also using a smaller inner ring this Tour but I don’t remember where. I don’t know how much he uses the 34, I’ve read the theory that for some of them the wider cassettes like that give them a better chainline on the gears they do they use a lot.
If he didn’t change anything for the mountains, then he could have used 40/30 or 40/27 with that 11/34 and 55/40 or 39 maybe 38, whatever the smaller inner ring was.
But what gears do they have now the we didnt back then?
Even if they were riding the exact same gears (they weren’t, for eg Pantani was riding 11/23x44 on his bike in the 98 tour vs 11/34x40 on Pogacar’s current bike) the time on the Plateu der Beille was 9% faster than the Pantani record, 44.72 meters per minute vs 41.09. If they were riding the exact same gear ratio (and gain ratio, which the short cranks of Pog do complicate!) of 44x23 for that climb, that would math out to a cadence of 80 for the Pantani record, and 87.04 for Pogacar. The foot speeds are significantly higher if they’re constrained to the same max low gear as the riders from previous eras.
In practice, this means that modern riders at the front of the field would have much more range to select gear ratios for comfortable foot speed on the climbs even if they were to be limited to the gear options of the '90’s and earlier. Which they aren’t.
This is a lot like something else I know we’ve talked about, 1/2 Ironman racing at the pro level. The modern races are so damn fast that they just aren’t the same race as back when they took a lot longer to do. There was a tipping point somewhere along the way, and the nature of the racing just changed. We’re very likely seeing something like that at the pointy end of the Pro Tour climbs right now. They’re going so damn fast that gear ratios, bike position, and the value of drafting should probably be expected to change in response. The efforts we’re seeing on these climbs probably have more in common with the “on the rivet” efforts on the flats than they do with the ass-hanging-off-the-back-of-the-saddle-just-trying-to-turn-the-inadequate-bailout-gear-over climbing we so often used to see. It would be surprising if we didn’t see rider positions also change to reflect that.
As per Rouleur, he had on a 55/40 and 11/34.
https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/pro-bike-tadej-pogacars-tour-de-france-colnago-v4rs
No I get that Pantani rode a 44/23 in his day, but that was a choice, and not a forced one. That is why I brought up my old recollections of the pro riders of that day, they “choose” to ride those straight blocs, it was kind of an honor thing I suppose.
But you are right in that they did ride those climbs in bigger gears, they just didnt have too. Pantani could have ridden a 40/28, as that was the bailout cluster of the era…And of course they thought they had enough gears as the cadence’s chosen were also lower, until Lance showed up…
And of course the equipment is faster now, I think the new tire, PSI, and wheel technology being the biggest factor. Little overall less weight, more aero stuff, and good call on the since they are going faster, there is more overall draft effect too…Kind of like swimming, so many factors other than the athlete have gotten faster, you have to readjust all news expectations…
And casting out any thoughts of the question that should not be asked, I do see a lot of legal “supplementation” stuff going on. A lot more than just coffee, in the its ok for now category, until it isnt…