I think trying to blame the athletes is a bit harsh. Most have spent their career targeting an early season IM/IM70.3 to qualify for worlds, having a tune up race or 2 mid-season before trying to peak at the right time for said World Championships.
Now, I imagine a lot of athletes were pretty excited about the T100 (and even the IM Pro Series) but have found that trying to continuously peak throughout the year is far harder than it seems. Maybe there is some blame on double dipping (both T100 & IM) but most likely theyâre just not used to doing it. Sam Long for the last few seasons has peaked way early into the year and faded and looks to be going the same way again.
employee speaks to ceo and asks the hard questions⌠seriously i guess this one needs to have a disclaimer , paid advert or conflict of interest .
the pto spin would be a better title for this episode
the only thing this sounded not like a scripted interview but a real inteview was when they talked about different distances and both made good points.
i totally agree the formats need to be more flexible.
but see the point that to sell it to age groupers needs to be a fixed distance . but this is something we kind of promote when in reality they distance are never fixed and we can measure courses proper ⌠i do want to the the 3.8 swim 40 k bike 21 k run etc etc there was nothing wrong with the short swim in san fransico either it really does not have to be the same is can be swim bike run swim bike run or swim bike swim bike and then run ,
anythign that breaks the bike packs up is good . and creats exitment like beaugrand getting dropped on bike almost gets back on run and swim to get dropped again on bike and in third lap makes is
i do agree that the ironman is kind of the marathon distance and that needs to be fixed but people really dont care if they run a half marathon 15 k k race
and for a 70.3 its similar the course tend to be much more varied and alp dues tri is not a fixed distance either and works well .
if the race is interesting that would be the unique selling point of pto sereis
you dont need the 100 in my mind
the big problem sam is selling great courses atm when they are not great venues and kelly is totally right you need mountain stage tri. its not the city sprints that catch the imagination in the tour its the mountain stage finishes and lets please get away that tri always has to be a swim bike run .
overall what i would say people like the scoring of pro trour more the every second counts , ironman just outdid them .
and here is the problem supertri is just better to watch on tv there is no comparasion pto 100 london vs supertri london supertri is 2 leagues above . and the supertri league commentator is prob the best in triathlon.
san fransico worked and the new curse in ibiza looks good . but still zell am zee was the race i really liked to watch as just a fab bike course and i am sick of watching the drafting in pto at this stage its a total clown show .
they have to employ a proper draft marshall who does this full time
jimmy ricatello would come to mind âŚ
Agree that âblaming the athletesâ is harsh. And not clear what people are âblaming themâ for.
PTO set up a series of middle distance (not Kelly wacky) races and want the best there so offer a season long contract with a remuneration package sufficiently lucrative to get signatures but flexible enough for athletes with other fish to fry to pursue those goals in parallel. That impending initiative encourages IRONMAN to generate and fund ($1.7M) a âPro Seriesâ designed to encourage Pros who are capable/willing of full distance to race long. They also reinstituted validation for IMWC and 70.3WC AQ athletes to make sure that those actually raced IM as opposed to just fronting up at Nice/Kona/Taupo.
So three âthreadsâ:
T100 (for those good enough, so top 25),
IM Pro Series for those who are better at full and not in the T100 excellence bracket (Matthews excepted),
IMWC and 70.3WC Nice/Kona/Taupo.
@TheGOATâIf the series is coming to an end the athletes can only blame themselves.â
Be assured the T100 tour will prosper in 2025 with at least the same number of races scheduled, and May plugged. I also think the IM Pro Series will be judged a success, and continued for 2025. I agree that athletes pulling out at short notice is unsatisfactory and in several of the cases, unnecessary. But this occurrence is a small percentage. Acccuracy of @Lurker4 's assumption on funding drying up is tbd. @buzzsaw All those three âWest, Jewett, Sodaro, etc who took the $ and have had nightmare seasons thanks to this seriesâ signed a T100 contract, entirely reasonably: West was marked up as a favourite; Sodaro had raced to two PTO podia so entirely capable at MD. Jewett has already made more than she did in the whole of 2023 by taking a PTO/T100 contract: no brainer. I cannot see how you can reasonably lay their poor 2024 results so far at the door of the T100 series. Does anyone know whatâs happened for Westâs results to plummet? Jewett still leaks time on her bike (her breakthrough race at Oceanside was 85km of legal wheel sucking complicated by lack of âtrain ridingâ experience): her London result was the best so far for her. Sodaroâs travails have been otherwise shared: her 2022 IMWC win seems to have had a mixed legacy so far, but due to T100: nyet. @Kingyâa lot of athletes . . . have found that trying to continuously peak throughout the year is far harder than it seems.â
Could you name a few athletes who you have particularly in mind? (besides Long who has just followed his ânormalâ pattern, with added IM decision flip-flopping). More interesting, given that athletes will surely recognise this challenge at the start of the year, what are good practices to maximise sustained performance. I can see options such as a âmid-season breakâ (eg 16 weeks between SF and Ibiza) and delay any effort to be racing well early doors (see Laidlow).
Looking forward, I canât see any âpeakingâ for Marbella which will be firmly in the T100 âbusyâ season.
PTO announced on their socials that Dubai is gonna be the grand final. Guess they couldnât close the other Middle East venue. I wonder what happens to the contracts of athletes who need 3 races plus the grand final
Definitely a big knock on the credibility front especially for potential investors. Would you invest in an organization that has failed to deliver every year ? And they want to do 10 events next year? Will any athlete plan their year around the PTO schedule now?
Very disappointing! I thought they will go to the end of the world to get the 8th race nailed
[quote=ârunningeconomy, post:624, topic:828678, full:trueâ] PTO announced on their socials that Dubai is gonna be the grand final. Guess they couldnât close the other Middle East venue. I wonder what happens to the contracts of athletes who need 3 races plus the grand final [/quote]
All athletes who were contracted to race 5 plus the GF are now required to race 4 plus GF (ie can still miss two).
The Olympians who now (Duffy and Spivey) have only Ibiza and Las Vegas to race âregular seasonâ will have a score equal to the average of those two races added to their total.
Van Riel and Knibb have raced one already so can get three scores in. I think both of them will have planned to race both anyway, so theyâll have 3 regular season results/scores to take forward to Dubai GF. And $25k for each race win is an additional incentive to race both.
For @BenwGoodfellow the Kelly/Renouf interview was at the weekend, though not published till Monday pm, and this decision, even if made by then, was not ready for sharing. If you listened (@49:20) the PTO had a great venue (letâs hope we go there next year), Renouf shares that it became apparent was not going to roll over a month ago and theyâve been trying to (assume) find another suitable venue on that date (at short notice).
Please help me understand: on what basis can you claim that the organization has failed to deliver every year? Do you have access to their broadcast numbers, sponsor monetization or any other relevant KPIs? Did you see their budget and whether they met their forecast?
They went from zero to having a series that everyone is talking about, with a gazillion views across their various social media platforms. It just happens to be a high-visibility start-up with their wins and foes exposed for all - for better or worse. Letâs give them a break and cherish what they are doing for our sport; itâs all positive, including MOIC wise to throw a bit of industry jargon
[quote=âasianzone, post:625, topic:828678â] And they want to do 10 events next year? Will any athlete plan their year around the PTO schedule now? [/quote] Number of races in the T100 Tour
The PTO said the initial target for 2024 was 10 events. And they nearly managed 9 when finally, and later than they ought, they launched T100 and announced the event schedule in late January. An event in Europe in May was dropped, leaving the 8 races. Failure to get the GF venue over the line has dropped the number to 7. I think 8 races per year is enough and those last two races were unreasonably compressed (13 days apart). If you want the worldâs best to peak for the world championship final, more or less mandating that the cohort races 13 days before is not good or fair practice.
Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov = 8
A downside of the move of the GF two weeks earlier is that all the IMWC men will be adversely affected, which is a pity but will not impact the male top spots as those are already likely to be claimed by non-full distance athletes. 2025 athlete planning
The contracted athletes planned their 2024 racing calendar âaround the PTO scheduleâ having received rough dates before Christmas. Will the PTO try to organise 10 events next year? Theyâll try. But in practice, youâre very likely to lose one or two. The important thing is to have a set of dates maintaining a season long narrative with events in (PTO-speak) iconic locations. Contracted athletes will indeed plan their 2025 racing calendar âaround the PTO scheduleâ. A side benefit of the T100 Tour finishing 2 weeks earlier is that the first tranche of contracts (with dates/venues) can be offered earlier (ie this November) as opposed to December (as in 2023). Which will assist planning (dates of Roth, Nice, Kona and Marbella already known).
Well, Iâm currently getting a 404 error on their page but itâs the coolest 404 error Iâve ever seen. Their desire to host the grand final in some ME country for a bag of money was always hilarious. Just like hosting the Collins Cup in Marrakesh was idiotic and showed that theyâre poorly run. And now the Collins Cup is dead, which to be frank was the only thing I found interesting from this promotion company.
@runningeconomy amateurs wanting consistency means that they know the business model of Triathlon is still the business model and they NEED to figure out how to make amateur racing work in order to afford to have T100 exist for the pros. The great thing about Ironman racing is that itâs never been about the pros, itâs always been about the brand. Which means youâre not reliant on commercial dollars or broadcast tied to the professional race to keep your company afloat and guess what. That means we as athletes arenât beholden to the pros for the health of our sport and ability to race.
@Ajax_Bay âprosperâ needs to be in quotes or least a .gif with air quotes.
Exclusive contracts, like I said when they first rumored for months that contracts would exist and people said theyâd be exclusive. If the conracts were 50k+ appearance fees this year, whatâs an exclusive contract value? I said it HAD to be at least 100k, but now that Iâm thinking about it, if Iâm a top pro who can race well at Ironman. There is limited utility in giving them exclusivity since no one but us on slowtwitch even watch this thing. Hawk Tuah girl has a larger following than all of Triathlon. The exclusive contract would need to be 200k, so letâs say you get 10 men and 10 women with 200k+prize money on the table. Thatâs a real value proposition.
But then how do you make the racing interesting, because from a broadcast perspective it is on par with Ironman, maybe a shot better one week, two shots the other, and then 4 shots back the next. The season long narrative thing hasnât worked because itâs still not tight like a sportsball season.
Well not as great if you back out anyone that finishes or doesnt pull the plug by 10 miles of Nice this weekend. It really is just a back stop in case of disaster for any of those ladies, and of course a fulfillment of their contracts to just be there physicallyâŚ
I guess LCB will need to target this as her must do race given Ibiza miss (assumed). She needs a third score: has two #2s and a DNF. Agree a fair few will fall off this list (Europeans) who could do without the travel and time off prep for Dubai and Taupo
I get the feeling we may not see Lucy race again this year. I think they are concerned about long term damage to her calf/achilles and it may be wise to let it fully heal before putting any more stress on it.
I was kinda thinking the same thing. I donât think she has too much to worry about financially so calling it a year and coming back fully healthy in 2025 seems like a reasonably good idea.
Iâve said this before but I think these race series (especially Ironman) are going to cause proâs to get burnt out and/or injured more frequently. If not handled properly, it may turn into a long term injury.
If I was on Lucyâs team, I would tell her to not to focus on either race series next year. Assuming sheâs healthy, pick races that excite her and build the entire year peaking for Kona. Chasing T100 or IM pro series points is going jeopardize the ultimate goal of Kona/IMWC. And I would tell that to almost everyone else who has a legitimate chance of winning a IMWC men or women.
