I just read how Lionel Sanders would do TT swims in the pool with a swimskin on. I have a swim skin and would like to do this, but would it ruin the suit? I don’t want to use it if the chlorine will damage its performamce gains. Wasn’t sure if sanders could wear one
because it’ll have no negative affects on the suit or if he could just
get a sponsor or someone to pick him up a new one anytime so he didn’t care if it was ruined or not.
I mean if sanders does it, you should do it.
amirightguys?
Looks like the swi skins are made of similar materials to tech suits eg TYR torque swi skin is 70% nylon, 30% Lycra, same as the tracer tech suit.
I’ve never used the swim skin, but a tech suit lasts maybe 3 swim meets before it loses compression and water repellency. Save it for race day.
What about for a sprint race with a pool swim?
You’ll get better endurance from a speed suit than a pool tech suit, but you will see diminishing return over time. Save the suit for racing.
These materials and coatings are improving in durability, but they don’t last forever.
Why use a speedsuit in the pool? Pushing off the wall is going to make any results pretty unattainable outside of the pool. For me, I would suggest just sticking to your intervals, and then do a TT (if you must) in your swim suit. This will give you a good indication of your fitness over the distance.
jake
What about for a sprint race with a pool swim?
Since the skin is worth ~2sec/100m you’d have to figure if there’s any gain when you factor in increased T1 time.
onceatriathl3, this might depend on your swimskin?
Kiwami told me that I could occasionally swim in a chlorine pool (once a month) with their suit and that’s worked fine for me. Afterwards I wash it on delicate in a front loader and adding vinegar to the pre-wash and a little soap to the wash. This has worked fine for me.
It is a definite plus training in the Kiwami Amphibian beforehand as the shoulder straps were initially a distraction. Like they said the suit did soften after a few wearings without loss of fit or compression and water beading off it.
Given the few times that I would actually race in one, I couldn’t justify the cost unless I had some fun training in it too to be certain of the 2s or more (if your slow like me) that you do get from one of these. Also it’s a hoot to go from the pool, to a spin class and then a fast run on the treadmill in one of these suits. Hope you enjoy your purchase.
I’ve been wearing P3Z long, TX3000, Speedo blade on a regular basis, without issue, chlorine, salt, salt+chlorine, fresh.
Just like a wetsuit, these need to be broken in (with exception of the blade). I get the mediums then it takes a bit to stretch out and feel good.
PS: I own the gear, the gear doesn’t own me!
You can wear them as much as you want, but they lose the magic stuff that makes them faster. If they stretch out and feel good, they aren’t doing their job. They should be tighter than a (insert vulgarity here)…
You can wear them as much as you want, but they lose the magic stuff that makes them faster. If they stretch out and feel good, they aren’t doing their job. They should be tighter than a (insert vulgarity here)…
that… and the chlorine eventually did destroy mine. The deterioration is not visible at first when it is off of you and dried out, wish someone would have to me by private parts where somewhat see through during a club race embarassed
Jason, I think you have direct experience with Kiwami, yes?
It is still feeling tight as it’s work to get in and out. If the material feels softer does that mean a loss of water repellant nature? Water still seems to be beading off in the shower.
Do you think a person gets x number of wears and then the Kiwamis are used up?
To restore the suit or keep it water proof I have been thinking about Scotch Guard Outdoor Water Shield. I may try that first on a pair of textile swim jammers to see if it beads like the Kiwami has and if there is any negative effect on the fabric.
PS have you had any trouble with transparency on the Kiwami, mine are black in those areas?
Never worn a swim skin. I have some experience with tech suits, and general principles apply.
The reason tech suits work so well is a couple of main ones.
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the material is hydrophobic, the fibres of the material are very smooth. After a few wears, the material becomes less hydrophobic, fibres break down and become less smooth. I did a test with an unused tech suit and my old one. Where I submerged them both in cold water for the same amount of time. The new one was dry when I pulled it out of the water, except the seams and drawstring. The old one had absorbed a fair bit of water, I had to hang it up to dry. However, it took a few minutes for water to absorb. If I just ran water over the old one, it would still bead.
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compression. The compression makes your body physically smaller and virtually eliminates rippling of your skin. A tech suit is really compressive, but again, after a few uses, the material stretches out.
Lastly, I don’t know about triathlon rules, but FINA rules prohibit any kind of a coating from being applied to the suit.
Jason, thank you for your answers and your experience in these matters.
Not to skirt the rules; yet still wondering how they do it - fast, legal suits.
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I would be surprised if there is a manufactured product that isn’t coated with something to begin with. Couldn’t that coating be re-applied and if so how would that change what was a legal suit? Also, a re-application would not lessen the value of the suit, it would actually increase the value to me. I’d be buying the suit and the re-application coating (like printers, paper and ink cartridges).
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You are right on about technical weaves. I’m amazed at swimsuits that retain an ever so slight air barrier between water and suit. When I see underwater video of women during races maintaining those air bubbles throughout their races - that’s what I want. Men could be allowed similar upper body coverage too IMO. How fast technical weaves break down is another matter.
The cycling business is booming due to aero, lighter, etc and it seems to develop more interest and money in the sport. The governing bodies for swimming (while purists) might be holding back the swimming industry from making some comparable gains.
Do have concerns about coatings and the effect on a person, material or water though. I have a friend whose specialty was water for a government agency and I’ll ask him about products first so as to avoid any harm to material, person or environment.
My swimming is going well thanks to your advice on this forum. Thank you.
Depends on which rulebook you race under. USAT go for it. ITU/TriCan/etc not allowed.
Tech suits aren’t coated with anything. It’s the material and the fit that makes them fast.
Except the “illegal” and original Blue Seventy PZ3. It is has a thin synthetic rubber coating (might be a urethane) and also has a very slight bit of float. I managed to score a NOS of Ebay and in the long version which is cool because that is even faster. This suit is still legal in USAT swims I believe, but not for WTC. Not sure about Canada maybe someone can school me on it.
It’s a great/fun suit to swim in because there is no bulk and cork bobbing effect of a wetsuit, yet it’s surprisingly quick - almost on par with a sleeveless suit for example. The suit takes the edge off the lake in summer mornings. I used it a lot last year. Put a little string on the zip so used it like a wetsuit.
The new PZ3tx is a textile like the TX3000 tri suit. A notch down from the monster suit, still faster than jammers for me at least.
Can’t wait until the lake warms up! I was just out pining at a dirty Kit’s pool this morning too.
Jason and realAlbertan, (would like to reply to both)
Here is the answer from the water expert (scientist) who worked for a government agency.
I looked over the info you sent me and visited the two websites.
Your swimsuit appears to have a coating applied to the exterior of the fabric. It maybe a silicone polymer. The reason chlorine reacts with the coating is silicone forms water soluble compounds with chlorine. So, the more times your swimsuit is exposed to chlorinated pool water, the coating will degrade faster. Because the coating is a trade secret, the company is not required to disclose it’s composition.
Because, the Scotch Guard appears to be a different chemical compound than the coating originally applied to your swimsuit, It would not adhere properly to your swimsuit. So, I would not use it.
As for alternative coatings, NIKWAX, www.nikwax-usa.com, has a number of products that might work. Check it out and see what you think.
Then I went to the nikwax site and found out that REI sells the product. These two reviews lead me to think that the nikwax wash-in product and spray might keep the Kiwami like new.
Review A -
As other people have stated, do your research before building up expectations. This does not make non-waterproof items waterproof, it restores the dwr (durable water repelant). The dwr is what causes water to bead up and fall of waterproof items which allows them to breath. Anything that is truly waterproof will remain waterproof regardless of the dwr, unless the membrane or seam tape is damaged (which can never truly be repaired). The waterproof membranes are inherently waterproof. Usually when people complain that their “gore-tex jacket isn’t waterproof anymore” what has actually happened is that the dwr is no longer effective for shedding water off the jacket, which causes the outer fabric to become saturated with water and the item looses its breathability, causing condensation to build up on the inside. This is called wet out, and yes, it feels like your jacket is leaking, but it isn’t, its just not breathing.
It should also be noted that for best results, item must be cleaned prior to application and put through tumble drier afterwords. Check your care label, nearly all gore-tex (and similar) garments can and should be put through and tumble drier (heat helps the bond the dwr and fabric).
Review B -
First off, the performance of the TX-Direct product in the bottle deserves 5 stars, but I’ve given Nikwax 4 stars because the spray head is prone to clogging & failure. Secondly: people need to DO THEIR HOMEWORK and know what they are buying! The one and two star reviews of this product here do NOT reflect failure of the product, but USER FAILURE to understand how technical fabrics work, and how to care for them.
THIS IS NOT A WATERPROOFER! This is a product that restores a Durable Water Resistant (DWR) coating to a Waterproof-Breathable fabric. What this means: this product causes water to bead up on the outer surface of a fabric, thus helping it to shed water. If the fabric itself doesn’t incorporate a waterproof barrier inside, it will NEVER be waterproof! This distinction is important! Most pack covers, backpacks, tents, etc. are NOT made of waterproof/breathable laminate fabrics like Gore-Tex, instead, they are typically coated with a thin layer of non-breathable PU plastic, and once this coating starts to crack & flake off, the fabric has PERMANENTLY lost its waterproofness.
For the poster who complains that his 10 year old Northface jacket was leaking after treating with this product, this has nothing to do with the Nikwax treatment: either 1) your seams are now leaking, or 2) your waterproof-breathable barrier inside the fabric is damaged. (Both 1 & 2 are quite likely if jacket was subject to frequent chlorine exposure, and/or frequent machine washing & drying).
As for the proper use and application of this product: 1) spray application is only neccessary and recommended for insulated or fleece-lined waterproof-breathable garments. Nikwax’s wash-in product achieves more consistent results with less work for shell garments, but for lined garments, you don’t want to mess with the vapor-transmission properties of down or synthetic insulators, so apply the spray to the outside shell only. 2) As another poster noted, you need spray the product on, and RUB IT IN for best results. I simply pull on a medical glove and rub it in by hand to get an even, consistent application and to work it thoroughly into the fabric. *In the event of sprayhead failure, you can simply apply it using an old sock or small washcloth, which will aid in “massaging” the product into the fabric. 3) ACTIVATE w/ 5mins IN THE DRYER. Excessive exposure to heat is NEVER good for a seam-sealed waterproof garment. Air-dry your insulated garment first, then place it for 5-10 minutes in your dryer on low heat. This reactivates (essentially “irons in”) the DWR coating, and is a trick worth trying on relatively new, clean garments that have begun to lose their water-repellancy, before you try re-treating the fabric with TX-Direct.
Here is the answer from the water expert (scientist) who worked for a government agency.
No such thing? What is the purpose of the post above? Are you suggesting treating jammers or swimskins with wax?
edit - I figured the kayakers would be all over this and they are, great article here: <http://www.epickayaks.com/article/article/to-wax-or-not-to-wax
I use Armour All, the original series, all over my wetsuits, inside and out. I did actually apply it a more than a few times to my PZ3 suit too. Makes it easier to in/out and also keeps things protected from the sun. Armour all is water soluble, so yes you have to re-apply it every week or so. It’s cheap too.
A silicone polymer of course is very slippery. In fact you can use silicone polymer/Armour All and HDPE plastic with skates to duplicate skating on ice (frozen water steel blade). I believe the reduced friction happens on a molecular level - very much like those old grocery boxes on a rolling conveyor track - the molecules spin , jiggle, or rotate easier.
Whether it makes a swimmer faster, I haven’t tested that. In the pool where 0.01 makes or breaks, I suppose is the place to test. But the surface area of jammers not worth it - you have to lather the full body of the swimmer. And I’ve wondered why that was not attempted? Keep in mind it would be unsafe as it makes floors wicked slippery!
Why not have two suits, pool/practice and race?
Pools are hard enough to keep clean as it is, please don’t spray additional stuff on your body or suits when you use them in the pool.
You’re kidding right? that is exactly what the speed suits are doing, loosing their chemical treatment, in a race 8 swimmers at time, 20 events a day!.
And the stuff that goes into pools (ie pool chemicals) are far, far worse than a thumbnail of non-toxic polymer, which is mostly water anyway.