suprisingly i’m not faster with the paddles. is this normal? i’m using the red speedo training paddles. i don’t use the wrist strap and the paddles stay on - i’m assuming that means my catch isn’t all bad. by the way, i swim about 1:45/100. blazing i know.
so, is it normal?
I dunno, but you must have one HELL of a kick.
Yes. Normal - I can swim 1:10 with the Speedo blacks and a pull bouy…granted only in sets of 2-400 but that is much faster than I am bare handed.
I’m slower with paddles as well. super slow with a pull bouy by itself, add paddles and I’m almost up there with my regular pace… and I can’t flip turn at all with paddles and a bouy! Last night my hard sets with paddles and a bouy were around 3:05 for 200y and then right afterwards I was going 1:07 for 100y freestyle.
suprisingly i’m not faster with the paddles. is this normal? i’m using the red speedo training paddles. i don’t use the wrist strap and the paddles stay on - i’m assuming that means my catch isn’t all bad. by the way, i swim about 1:45/100. blazing i know.
so, is it normal?
Yeah, for now. But you’ll get materially faster if you stick with it for 4-6 weeks. You don’t have the power and endurance yet to pull those things through the water (or, should I say – pull yourself past them through the water).
When I started using paddles/buoy for my main workouts, I found the first couple 100s were pretty quick and then I would fade – and massively. I would start by leaving on the 1:30 (SCY) and be down to leaving on the 2:00 after only 10x 100. I stuck with it and by the end of 6 weeks, I had done a 35x 100 set on the 1:25, which was (is) a life-best swim set. That was back in September, and I’ve started back on the paddles in earnest just this week.
The paddles really expose your lack of endurance in the arms and shoulders. BTW – this is exactly what happens in races. Darn near everybody is cranking at 1:30s or better for a few hundred meters and then the groups separate. The paddle/buoy setup does a very nice job of lifting endurance for long swims.
For folks without a major technique problem or limiter, I think paddles + buoy are a great way to build some serious power and endurance.
Slightly odd, but there are probably reasons. How does your stroke rate change when the paddles go on? Swim speed comes from stroke rate as well as stroke length.
If you don’t have very strong lats/triceps or swim in such a way that you don’t use those muscles all that much, you can end up decreasing stroke rate because you’re really having to muscle through the pull when you aren’t used to it.
When I’m just getting back in the pool, I see some speed decreases with paddles because I’m lacking in swim-specific strength at the time. It takes a bit to rebuild that strength to the point I’ve got my stroke rate back up to where I’m getting a speed boost from the paddles.
it doesn’t seem like my strok rate changes as much as my body position. i’m new to the pull buoy but it seems rather unnatural. i guess i’m unsure of how much to rotate, if at all.
another tidbit. i’ve been crossing my legs just to ensure i don’t kick. that really makes my back end sink. normal?
Kinda defeats the purpose of the PB, no? Maybe use a band around your ankles?
I hate PBs. Throws EVERYTHING off. But consider the source of this info… you only need look at my signature.
When using the Pull Buoy and Paddles you still need to rotate. The difference is that you have eliminated your kick. Normally you are using your kick to help to rotate your body. Because you are no longer kicking with the buoy between your legs it is now harder for you to rotate at all and any advantage that the paddles give you is being negated by the fact that you aren’t rotating.
What you need to do, as someone else pointed out, is stick with it and after a few weeks you should become a bit faster as your body learns to rotate on its own, using your core to rotate you onto your side instead of relying on your kick to rotate you. I would work on a long and powerful stroke when using buoys and paddles. Try to take less strokes per length than when you are swimming without them. Don’t cross your legs, use what is referred to as a band. Take an old bicycle inner tube and tie it into a loop that you can slide over your ankles so that you won’t use your legs at all.
I have found that the people that I work with go slightly faster with equipment on (buoys/paddles) but the intensity is different. It shifts the work from your aerobic system to your muscles, for example your arms will be more sore but you won’t be breathing as heavily as without equipment. If you can hold 1:20’s without equipment, you should be able to hold 1:15’s with equipment.
Hope this helps!
that does help thanks. ok, i will try the bands instead of the lesser-known technique of crossing the legs and rotate taking long strokes.
Geoff,
I have been swimming competitively for 30 years (including sub 24 1/2 IM swim), and I swim faster with a buoy mostly because of the resulting elevation of the hips (similar in principle to what happens when we all wear wetsuits – in fact, I call my wetsuit my big black pull buoy). The addition of paddles is incidental. But the larger the paddles, the more it’s muscular endurance (and less aerobic). The size of the paddles I use will be a function of the nature of the workout I am trying to accomplish. Not unlike playing with over-gearing/changing RPMs on the bike.
DP
David-
You are right, I neglected to note that the increase in speed is due mostly to the buoy, and that the increase in muscular stress is due to the paddles. I must say though, that when one swims with paddles (no buoy) they are normally faster than swimming without them as a result of the increased volume of water being moved. Do you agree?
Using the band really SINKS the legs from my personal experience. Should I continue to swim with the PB and the band even though the legs are sinking SOO badly? I havnt tried swimming with paddles though…
What the band is doing is preventing your legs from being able to kick, either to balance your body or propel you throught the water. If the band is causing your legs to sink to the extent that it is not allowing you to focus on using your arms, then yes, stop using it.
Try swimming with paddles when using the band, given you don’t have shoulder problems and are in sufficient swim shape that the added muscular stress of the paddles won’t cause any new shoulder problems. The paddles might add just enough speed when using the buoy that they will help to float your feet a bit more.
And further, remember that the band, as well as the paddles, as well as the buoy, should be looked at for the most part as drills. They should not make swimming easier, they should enhance certain aspects of your stroke by making you do them correctly. It seems to me that there are two entirely different ways in which this equipment is used. The one is to enhance your stroke, and the other (which I often use them for) is to put on paddles and use a buoy to keep up with faster lane mates. Say what you will about the pros and cons of the latter use, but realize that the two uses are distinct and reap very different rewards.
Hope this helps!
Thanks! 
I don’t know that that is entirely normal (for your legs to sink that badly). You need to try and balance a little better and if that doesn’t work you could try either getting a bigger/more floaty pull buoy or using two at a time.
What are some good sets for paddles. I normally do 800-1000 of medium sets (400YDS) and concentrate on form which i am improving. Should I be doing quick 100’s or tring to swim fast at all?
Hershal34,
Paddles are cool toys. Do be aware that rectangular paddles can create shoulder pain. If you wear you paddles without the wrist strap they will tell you when an error is occurring. You will notice that they paddles starts to turn and sometimes falls off. This usually occurs on entry and exit from the water.
My favorite paddles are fulcrum paddles manufactured by the Finis company. They are tapered by the finger tips and place more stress in the palm of your hand.
Triathletes get sucked into pull sets because it is easier to crank out the yardage at speed. I do long sets with paddles while I am swimming. I do not pulling at all. I want my legs involved even minimally during the workout. A pull buoy will keep your hips riding very high in the water. If you want to use a pull buoy also use a band on your ankles. If there is an error in your stroke your legs will fishtail back and forth.
Yesterday I did a straight 2,000 using my paddles, center snorkel and drag suit. The goal was to descend each 500. I started at 7:10 and ended at 7:05. Long swims still the mind. It is so peaceful.
DougStern
What are some good sets for paddles. I normally do 800-1000 of medium sets (400YDS) and concentrate on form which i am improving. Should I be doing quick 100’s or tring to swim fast at all?
I do mostly long steady sets. Whatever you do, keep the turnover rolling. It is easy to reduce stroke rate with paddles – don’t. Just swim, but keep those arms turning over. If you use a buoy, don’t fall into the habit of swimming flat; keep the body rotation going and get the recovering arm shoulder up out of the water and the pulling shoulder down deep (you don’t need to kick to rotate). Don’t think “fast” or “slow” – just swim at a good strong pace with good form and good turnover. Alternate side breating is a must.
My current paddles workouts are: Wednesdays – 30x 100 on 5 sec rest; pick up the effort for the last 10 repeats. Fridays – 4x 10’ steady swim. No warmup; I just get in the pool and start swimming. I’ll keep making these longer as I get closer to IM CDA.
in a different thread long, long ago marc becker of ironguides recommended sets of 25’s, 50’s and 100’s on different days with minimal rest. just keep going for an 1hr or whatever you have time for. you can do a search and find the thread if you’re interested.