So like alot of triathlete’s I have a pretty weak kick when I swim. I do alot of kick drills to improve and I’ve found that immediately following a drill, even going back to my weak kick, I’m much, much more smooth and powerful in the water. As an example: if I do an all-out, fully rested 50m drill (sans any kick drill prior) I’m hitting the wall around 0:43-45 (don’t laugh). However, if I do a 25m kick, then follow with those same 50m I’m hitting the wall around 0:40-42. If I follow that with another 50 I’m back to my typical 43-45. What gives? Might it be a better awareness of how my core should function during the stroke? I’m not kicking any more/less after doing a kick drill, in fact I’ve done a few splits where I don’t kick at all and I’m still hitting the wall faster.
Is this common? I don’t swim with a master’s group or have a coach so I’m not sure if this is common. I’m certainly going to continue doing alot of drilling to ingrain whatever’s different into my stroke but it’s just strange to me.
I think you need to put the kick board away and concentrate on your form and get the yardage up.
All I do is concentrate on form, I’m always thinking about what I’m doing right/wrong on any given interval. It just happens to come together better after kicking.
Agreed on the yardage, that’s a work-in-progress. Doing about 6-8,000m a week in three sessions, I’d like to get it to the 10-12K area.
My kicking drill is usually a 200 meter set during warm up hitting 100m around 2:00. And it feels as if my quads have been hit with a bat afterwards, but like you I notice I’m a bit faster swimming afterwards.
My kick is a nightmare. My yardage is about 8000 yd+ per week in 3 sessions. I am an average swimmer who is confident in my stroke; however, I can not perform a 25yd kick with a board with out my hip flexors SCREAMING. I make sure my feet are kicking on top of the water. In addition my 25yd time for a kick board is embarrassing to even mention. I have to remove them from my work out. Someone once told me to replace kick board drills with floating on your back and kicking down the lane so I do that occassionaly. Any thoughts?
Would love any advice I can get. Been with a few swim coaches and haven’t gotten anywhere on the kick. My hip flexors are SUPER tight and over worked for sure. Quads to a lot of the work and my hammies/glut are very weak. Not sure if this info helps?
When I Keep my ankles flexible my kick is always stronger or better yet a bit more efficient since I do not really exert myself any harder. But I have always been more of a shoulder swimmer then kicker. I think with distance swimming the body and the legs are there more for balance and stream limit the body. But if you are sprinting then the kick comes into play
Makes sense, and I’m right there with ya…shoulder swimmer, legs are more in play for balance and there’s not much of a real ‘kick’. Just seems strange how much better things flow–regardless of the kick–after doing a drill or two, and then it’s gone 50-100m afterward and I’m back to my flailing, 1:45/100m form.
Yeah, sounds alot like me. You may be a bit better than me in all respects of swimming but kick drills are absolute torture to me…50m @1:50 and I’m torched, hip flexors screaming.
And to reiterate, I’m not looking for a dynamic, powerful kick, I’m fine with them mostly used for balance. I just can’t wrap my head around why I’d be so much faster after doing a kick drill and why I can’t for the life of me replicate that form on its own.
Maybe I’m jsut doomed to forever be a turtle in the water
How many kick beat per stroke rotation are you doing? Remember this is distance swimming and most typically use a lower beat ratio than if you are a sprinter… You also don’t want to burn the quads out before you get on the bike.
I swam the 1650 in college and typically held 8 to 10 beats per rotation… The kick in distance is really not a propulsion type kick as in a sprint…
Are you getting proper glide and pull technique in?
To bmanners point for a triathlon a think a kick is not a vital part of the swim. I don’t beat myself up about it and just move past it. Focus on improving my form where I can see measurable levels of improvement with dedication to my form. On the kick I just moved past it. As silly as it sounds a 100m kick board drill would destroy my workout. I would be completely useless from the legs down with my hip flexors screaming for mercy. I’ve also destroyed both my ankles so many times and have very little ankle mobility. I’m sure that is a part of the problem for me.
How many kick beat per stroke rotation are you doing? Remember this is distance swimming and most typically use a lower beat ratio than if you are a sprinter… You also don’t want to burn the quads out before you get on the bike.
I swam the 1650 in college and typically held 8 to 10 beats per rotation… The kick in distance is really not a propulsion type kick as in a sprint…
Are you getting proper glide and pull technique in?
2 beat kick unless I’m doing a hard 25, then it’s more of a 6-beat. I would say my pull is generally solid, but I think the issue is the glide, I’m not sure my hips and core are functioning correctly when not done post-kick drill.
Edit to add: so I guess the question for you fishies out there, do you know of any drills the helps improve that core ability, proper hip and core movement/propulsion that might improve technique? Or might this just be a case of ‘swim, swim, and swim some more’?
As silly as it sounds a 100m kick board drill would destroy my workout. I would be completely useless from the legs down with my hip flexors screaming for mercy.
See and that’s the thing, why I’ve brought this up: my legs are toast after a hard 100m kick drill, they’re barely functioning in any interval after that. But even with that the case, I’m considerably faster through the water after doing the kick drill, it’ll last 1-3 laps then I’m back to being a rock in the water with two flailing arms.
How many kick beat per stroke rotation are you doing? Remember this is distance swimming and most typically use a lower beat ratio than if you are a sprinter… You also don’t want to burn the quads out before you get on the bike.
I swam the 1650 in college and typically held 8 to 10 beats per rotation… The kick in distance is really not a propulsion type kick as in a sprint…
Are you getting proper glide and pull technique in?
you scare me when you use words such as proper and technique in the same sentence. I do a poor job at stoke counts - I don’t know how people do it drives me crazy. But my upper body is strong and I have a decent pull technique as well as decent (not great) body position that allows me to glide in the water. I just don’t know if it makes sense to beat yourself up over the kick.
Do you work on the other strokes? I’m guessing no. It’s impossible to swim fly without a pretty good kick that starts from the hips. Maybe that would help. If you’re trying to improve your body position, another great drill is the 3 s/10 k/ 3 stroke drill, push off, pull one arm, 10 kicks on your side, 3 strokes, then 10 kicks on the other side. You can use fins to help also.
Good call…just yesterday I was sharing a lane with a real strong swimmer–he must have been hitting the wall at 1:20 during 100m sets–and he incorporated few sets of each stroke. I’ve never, ever done anything but free, maybe it’s time to vary things up a bit.
And that drill looks promising, I do a variation of it but never incorporate multiple strokes between kicks, it’s just ‘kick 8-10 times, pull through, kick on the other side 8-10 times, repeat’.
Edit to add: so I guess the question for you fishies out there, do you know of any drills the helps improve that core ability, proper hip and core movement/propulsion that might improve technique? Or might this just be a case of ‘swim, swim, and swim some more’?
I’m a fan of just keeping it simple and flutter kicking on your back, arms streamlined above your head. You can’t really bicycle kick from that position, encouraging a nice kick from the hips, and you can breathe as much as you need to without slinging your head around.
As for the original question, I suspect that you’re actually figuring out some semi-decent body positioning, pointed toes, etc. on the kick set to keep yourself from sinking and that kind of thing tends to carry over the first 15-20 meters when you start up with the freestyle again.
This guy also has no kicking skills-in the prone position. Sidelying kicking is a heck of alot easier than trying to do so while on your tummy and rotating. I haven’t used a kick board in maybe ten years as I can’t make the darn thing move with my lack of ankle flexibility. I just drag my legs behind me and kick backwards with the opposite arm during the body rotation. I also have similar 50yd swim times.
Kicking on your side lets you bicycle kick something fierce. The point is to get into a position where you can’t cheat and kick from your knees like that instead of thinking you’re drilling flutter kick when what you really have is a half-assed sidestroke kick.
(I’m also not a fan of vertical kick for poor kickers for the same reason- even good swimmers will cheat like hell and eggbeater to some degree to make it through a vertical kick set.)
I find with my kids it is easier for them to hold onto a wall and kick so they don’t cheat with their knees. I think I had a bit of a break through with my son yesterday doing this and having him count six kicks. Then doing it with his stroke. Now to work on breathing technique.
