in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtxvioNUBiY&NR=1&feature=fvwp
at 1:17 and on, they say “Entering the water with your fingers open reduces your speed dramatically”.
is this really true? because i have those gloves that get you in the habbit of keeping your fingers open all the time.
so should you enter the water with fingers closed and then open them once the arm is fully extended?
I never really thought of the fingers on the hand entry, but it makes sense (and feels natural) to keep them tight for a good slice/stab of the water.
Best is to try & see if you feel water-resistance (like in the sculling drills). Water teaches you…
those guys are no slowpokes:
There must be an optimum middle ground for this. Neither should your fingers be tightly squeezed with one another nor should they be spread wide apart. Having your fingers firm but not too tight would not considerably have negative impact in causing any amount of drag. As long as your catch and pull are able to do the work, overanalyzing the hand-entry-finger-tightness would not be too meaningful. Probably, the better question is whether you have your hand enter at around your eye-line or when your arm is fully stretched out in front.
They show some pretty extreme examples in the video. Were they serious about the “put it all together”? Looks like someone drowning.
There must be an optimum middle ground for this. Neither should your fingers be tightly squeezed with one another nor should they be spread wide apart.
This
With your fingers wide apart you lose the 'paddle’effect some what and water flows through your fingers. If they are close together but not nesecarily tight the water doesn’t flow between your fingers as well and effectively increases your paddle size.( that sounds dirty)
OH FINGERS, TO BE TOGETHER OR NOT TOGETHER? THAT IS THE QUESTION!
(From ASCA Newsletter Issue 8 2010)
The hand shape and positioning of the fingers continues to come up as a subject of interest and some confusion. I have listened to teachers, coaches, parents and swimmers all coming up with different views over the years. Views expressed like “Cup the hand to hold the water,” “fingers together for more power,” “fingers apart less force.” Most recently this subject came up at a Swimming Coaches clinic that I attended.
As early as the 1960’s “Doc” Counsilman, at one of the early American Swimming Coaches Association Clinics, referred to studies testing various hand positions in the water from closed fist, to open hand (fingers spread). This has stuck with me over the years and I have continuously emphasized the “relaxed” hand with the fingers slightly apart. The majority of the new, younger swimmers that I have observed adopt the relaxed hand naturally.
My curiosity on this subject, just to see if I have been missing something new, I googled “Hand position, in swimming.” The results were quite interesting. The most recent one from the Journal of Biomechanics entitled: “The Optimum Finger Spacing in Human Swimming,” printed last year by Alberto Minetti, Georgios Machtsiras, and Jonathan C. Masters. I would encourage the curious to take a look at this article. The research is very well doen. The article includes graphs and photos. Disadvantages of the hand with ‘closed’ fingers is discussed. In the concluding paragraph, the authors state “It is fortunate that the (absolute) optimum spacing appears to correspond to the “natural” resting posture of fingers.”
Mike Milliman
FWIW as a kid we were taught 4 fingers together and thumb perpendicular to plane of index. but that was back in the days of AAU.
This deals with underwater, but a different take. Gary ain’t no dummay.
http://www.theraceclub.net/videos/secret-tip-how-to-position-your-hands-underwater/
Those intro shots are amazing. I would pay a decent price to have that kinda speed with that effort.
.
Mac has the relevant reference for this (see above). To me, even thinking about what your fingers are doing, beyond simply being relaxed is micro-management of the stroke – I would avoid that. Similarly, if you have a finger strategy upon entry (closed) then a finger strategy while paddling (slightly open), you will, in my opinion, be wayyyy too thoughtful, making you less than able to perform at your best.
regards,
r.b.
I agree with being too thoughtful - a lot of people doing “TI” are like that. Way too much hesitation and focus going into the stroke, seems to lead to tightness and poor body position (which is what they are trying to fix).
I think though that if you do some dedicated drills/sets then you could ingrain a different motor pattern and end up with your fingers “naturally” going slightly open. Maybe do this with a pool buoy so that you can concentrate on that particular aspect without worrying as much about body position/kick?
if you do some dedicated drills/sets then you could ingrain a different motor pattern and end up with your fingers “naturally” going slightly open.
I suppose that this is a reasonable approach, though I go back to the article above, if you are relaxed, you might be in the best position of all. I am all for aggregating a bunch of “marginal gains”, but I have serious doubts as to the magnitude of what improvements this could yield – maybe it is substantial – but I just haven’t seen anyone be like “I just raised my finger spread from 0 mm to 2.5 mm and now am repeating :02 faster per 100”. Hell, if I DID hear that, you and me would be creating a bunch of drill progressions to develop it!
All that said, one year I coached a group of 7-8 year olds who were new to the sport – all first year swimmers but 2 of them, and we did a ton of sculling. These girls and guys ended up winning the regional YMCA tristate hullabaloo that winter. Because of sculling? Because I was an awesome coach? I doubt both actually: 9 years later I found myself coaching the exact same group of kids, who I had not seen at all during the intervening years, guess what - they were still awesome, still punching way above their weight as a group. In other words, I chalk this up to a big fat lump of talent happening into my sculling experiment and leading me to believe (temporarily) that sculling was really, really potent. Not that I DIS-believe now, just that I am not sure.
Regards,
r.b.
I’m pretty sure this is the ticket, after all it’s from the future…it’s only logical that it is superior:
*Disclaimer: I may have been watching too many TBBT reruns lately…if such a thing is possible. *
Most of the ^^^ posts deal with finger spacing during the pull. Your question was ‘on entry’. I’m not sure any of the studies dealt with that.
I’d assume, though, that the smallest surface area presented to the water on hand entry will be the fastest at that moment in your stroke, which likely means that fingers together (not naturally spaced) would be fastest. I’m not sure how material the difference is, though. So maybe the guy in the youtube video was right.
And eventually you’d have to open your fingers to natural for optimal traction during the pull, so you’ll incur the penalty of getting to naturally-spaced open fingers sometime during the underwater portion of your stroke, unless you time it just perfectly at the end of your glide and start of your pull.
If your race is in these conditions, it matters not whether your fingers are open or closed…
swim exit