so, i’m trying to get better at this whole running thing, but coming from a competitive swimming background i’m having some trouble. i’m trying to get through daniel’s running formula - but it’s going slow. this girl is stuck - i need help.
do any swimmers have advice? my problem is that i can’t seem to get my body to train at different speeds. with swimming, it seemed easier to warm up, swim easy, swim fast and sprint. you apply more pressure at certain points of your stroke, slow down your turnover, kick harder, etc. but every time i go out to run, it feels like i’m always going the same speed. the only thing i feel like i can do to get faster (or slower) is change cadence… and i have really long legs so i changing speeds like that always seems awkward. maybe its just something i need to get used to… i want to be able to get to the point where i can actually have different running workouts, but now it’s all the same.
any swimmers have some sort of comparison or analogy? or anyone who can tell a swimmer about some comparison or analogy? i looked for a simliar thread but couldn’t find one. thanks…
in highschool i was on the cross country running team and track team, i just ran all the time, when i started running longer, more distance, with a team, it was very difficult at first and i needed to move slowly, now im training at higher speeds over longer distances and am really focussing on running, it’s also helping my swimming too, my 200 breaststroke got better by 2 seconds, yes that’s partly because of swim training, but i think it also has to do with the amount of running ive been doing, as ive never been very strong in 200 meter breaststroke. Anyhow, you just gotta giv’r and go for it. good luck.
not quite sure i understand… were you previously a swimmer and then tried track, etc? if yes, what helped you ‘get’ run training? that’s what i’m struggling with. just more mileage?
im currently a swimmer, im in the pool like 22 hrs a week.
and im currently running, i found that i just had to develop more of a running base at first than anything, runs of 40minutes to an hour will help you do this. but you gotta do it every day.
Go for a longer distance run ,you need to find out what speeds are too hard to hold and what speeds are to easy. Give it some more time, Try jogging for 1 min, then running hard for 1 min.
e and try mixing up the workouts. Do some hill training
I just ended my swimming career last year to focus specifically on triathlons. When I was melting over to the tri-realm I was having simliar problems. I don’t know if it’s us funny swimmers or it was just my physical body type (I have almost none fast-twitch muscles, or at least I think I don’t) but I couldn’t pick it up. Just a set and go.
As you know with swimming, you preform your best when you’re on a team. I joined my high school track team then eventually my xc team. I think these two things helped me out the best. I got some great track workouts in which developed speed, I learned how to run slow on recovery runs w/ the guys, and I learned how to really race.
If you can’t get on a team or in a club, I’d consider something a great runner here at the Naval Academy told me, “You gotta learn how to run slow before you can run fast.” Maybe the reason why you don’t have different speeds is that you didn’t teach your body the first speed of running, slow.
200 breaststroke was my best event back when I swam competitively and I have made a slow transistion to running over the past two years. I started at 10 to 20 miles per week and now run between 60 and 70 without problems. The major road block for me was injury. I guess after 14 years of swimming my body wasn’t ready for the pounding of running. I have had a laundry list of injuries (like achilles tendonitis, IT Band problems, plantar problems, etc.). I am just now learning to run high mileage without hurting myself.
funny about all these breaststrokers. we’re a strange breed.
after swimming my shoulders into oblivion i’m expecting my knees to go the same way… i’ve been told i have weak joints, cartilage. great. taking the mileage slow, no more than 25 a week right now. i’m able to run comfortably and for a while… what i’m trying to learn is variation. given the fact that swimmers stare at a black line for a couple of hours at a time, we still could change up stuff that we did. that’s what i’m looking to do - but my body hasn’t really figured it out yet.
I was in similar situation: age-grouper since age 6 thru college @ Div I; ~15+ yrs pure swimmer, no running history.
Most significant factor for me was weight lose and\or body composition. Went from 185lbs to 165lbs in first 6 months…lost a lot of upper body muscle mass & “swimmer-type” body fat.
Focused on running only for 2 yrs: no cycling\weights\tris, only road races & 2-3x per wk easy\recovery swims…keeping feel for the water. 1st season marks: 10K (37:09) & 2:51 (marathon), and 2nd season PR’s dropped to 10K (34:40) & 2:43 (marathon)…btw, performances @ same race venues. Don’t believe that I would’ve acheived these results while cycling (triathlon) concurrently.
My philosophy (then & now) is that “it all helps”: long runs, tempo runs, sprints, drills, trackwork, group runs, etc. because, w/ no prior experience, I had a huge improvement potential.
As a life-long swimmer\athlete, I’m sure you know how to train hard. Do the research & apply the same principles & work ethic that produced successful swimming results.
Injuries can de-rail everything, so be judicious w/ volume & intensity. Hope this helps & good luck!
I was a swimmer all through college (also a 100 and 200 breastroker) and I am also a girl. I was a HORRIBLE runner. I mean, just pathetic. When I first got into triathlon, I could run about 2 miles, tops. I started out very slowly. I bought a heart rate monitor and was a slave to it. I figured out my training zones (check out the Triathlete’s Training Bible) and consistently did ALL of my runs in Zones 1 & 2 for about 6 months to a year. I found that by doing that, I was able to run longer and longer staying in the same zone, up to where I was going 13+ miles easily.
After I got more comfortable running, I started adding in strides and some tempo runs. I did intervals once a week and did 1 long run per week. My running started to come around. I still am not fast by any means, but I can run long distances comfortably.
I would not throw yourself into wind sprints, etc like some others have suggested. You are just asking to get hurt, in my opinion. Go slow and increase the mileage slowly. You will see definite gains.
By the way, I’m convinced that swimmers are terrible runners! My whole team in college was pathetic, except for a very select few! And we were a Top D3 team!
I think you need to do some speed work. But make sure you have an adequate base to do that. In fact, you may not even need to do anything that “hard” right now. Try things like accelerations which force you to focus on proper form and leg turn over for only 40-100 yards.
BTW, I am not a swimmer and when I got into swimming I had the same problem with swimming as you have with running. I could only swim one speed. I’d do my warmup, my long-yard sets and my short-yard sets all at the same basic speed. Now that I’ve actually developed some speed I can swim at that speed or below it.
note: As a swimmer – you have a big cardio engine – your legs muscles will catch up to your heart and lungs WAY faster than your ligiments, tendons and bones. Be very very very careful on how much speed and volume you add each week.
Doing too much too fast equals Injury.
Try a standard training period of three weeks build, one week rest. Meaning add (approximately) 5%, 5%, 10% each week, then drop by 30%.
10% can be by time or miles (I recommend time) - If you are running 4 hours per week week 1: 4 hrs 15 min. week 2: 4hrs 30 min. week 3: 5 hours Rest week 4: 3:30 hrs. Week 5: 4:30 Week 6: 4:45 week 7: 5:15 week 8: 3:45
Hopefully you can see the pattern. Let your bones, tendons and ligaments catch up to your leg muscles and cardio engine.
I used to be a swimmer, but then took a long time off before starting to swim a couple years ago so I could do some tris. I only swim about once a week now and find that I really have only one pace with very little ability to swim much faster. Whenever I am doing base building in my running, I just run at a fairly slow and easy pace and probably could not speed up very much. So, I think that you are just running at a one pace because that’s all you can do right now.
A very big risk for swimmers that start running is that they try to run too much. After all, we can swim 5 or 6 miles a day, why can’t we run that much. The answer is that we will probably destroy our legs if we try to do that. From how you describe your background, your overall aerobic fitness is far greater than the fitness of your legs, and they will get tired and beat up long before your heart and lungs get tired. Even though I stopping swimming seriously about 20 years ago, and I have run 8 marathons in the past 7 years, my legs still get tired far more often than my aerobic system tires out.
Really, really good runners have roughly the same cadence no matter how fast they are going; they simply vary their stride length. For rest of us, we run faster when our running cadence gets faster. You certainly fall into this category so don’t worry about needing to speed up your cadence to run faster now. In fact, you might never get to be a good enough runner to be able to speed up without increasing your cadence. No shame in that; remember that most people on this board can’t swim butterfly and they can still swim well enough to do tris.
So, anyway, I think that you just need to get used to running. After a few weeks or a couple months, you will find that you can go faster and have more gears than you have now. Once you reach that point, then start to do some speedwork. But, IMO, don’t jump into speedwork right now. You really do need some time for your legs to get used to running.
I come from a swimming background, and also palyed LaCrosse in the spring, so I have a litte bit of running in my past.
I am a Horrible runner. I too sought the advice of the almighty ST community and the best advice that I got was to “Run More.” Now you have to be smart about this and keep your mileage/speed increases to 10% a week max or you can really hurt yourself.
To many of us think that running should be easy, but it is not. It takes time to develop the proper stride, muscle strength, and bone density that enables you to run long and fast. Time can mean years in some cases. Think about how many years it took to develop into a good swimmer, developing into a good runner is a similar path. I am sorry there is no magic pill.
thanks everyone for the input. can i ask another (basic) question? what’s ‘a good base’? i’m sure it varies… but a general idea? what’s average for someone who’s longest race this summer will be a half iron?
I’m assuming by ‘A good base’ you are refereing to what speed you should be running your base building runs?
These runs are often refered to as long and slow, but its important that its not to slow. A good estimate for a base run pace is take 1-1:30 per mile off your race pace for the distance your running.
For example doing training for a 1/2 ironman with a target 1/2 marathon run of 1 hour 30(6:57 mile pace) I would do 10-12 mile runs at around a 8 min mile pace. Of course thats what I intend to run at, I’m not very good at slowing my self down
The best advice I can give is Track work, its the best way to improve, speed and running form and just as importantly pacing.
Here is a good Track workout for learning how to adjust pace.
4 x 400m, 2 x 800m, 1 x 1600, 2 x 800, 4 x 400, run at a slight negative split, meaning your last 400 should be your fastest.
Also
1 x 1600, 1 x 1600, 1 x 1600 run with 1 lap warm down between each at negative 10sec split per mile. E.g 6:00, 5:50, 5:40. Try going all out on the last one.
actually i’m think of actual base mileage…not pace, yet. (even though that’s what i has started the thread about, originally) based on what people are saying here i should worry about ramping up to longer, easier runs before i start speed work.
the training plan i’m using just asks that you’re able to run an hour without problems in order to be able to make the plan work. is that pretty standard?
people here have been saying to “build up a good base” - how do i know when i’ve done that? sorry if i seem like a moron - i guess being in the pool for 15 years broke my brain.
For those new to running, training by time is a good plan. Eventually you want to know roughly what kind of mileage your doing.
For a 1/2 Ironman I see being able to comfortably run 10 miles is sign of a good base, time wise what ever it takes to do this while being able to hold a conversation.
A good base could be defined as enough time invested to safely without injury increase both the intensity and distance of training.
I like to throw in a bit of speed and tempo work in with base building early on. As long as you warm up properly the speed work will help you on your longer runs as it improves your body’s biomechanical understanding of running efficiently.
