Lots of swimming threads lately-I’ve enjoyed reading them and learned some too.
My question is about what specific type workouts would be effective to improve my speed from Oly up to IM distance. I’ve had my stroke looked at by various local coaches and all agree its pretty good-certainly not perfect but pretty good. My engine is decent too but I’m stuck in the at 1.04-1.06 IM range for times. I do all my swims solo in the pool and always seem to settle into a “moderate pace”, not pushing myself. There are no local masters sessions so thats not an option.
What are some good sets/workouts to improve my speed?? Fast 50’s and 100’s w/ lots of rest or 100-200s w/ short rest intervals. Or like 500’s at race pace.
You’ll get faster just by bumping up your yardage (probably), and doing repeats at just above threshold pace (50s-400s on short rest intervals). Unless you want to be a drop dead sprinter, don’t bother with 50s and 100s on long rest intervals. 50’s on short rest intervals are great in that they help with pacing as well. eg if you can make a set of 30x50 swimming 40 secs each repeat, have a 45 sec off time so you are forced to get no more than 5 secs rest and you can get the times nailed.
I disagree with Jason, I think you’re swimming enough, and you should incorporate some shorter sets into your training. Something like this:
(8x25 on :30, 4x50 on 1:00)x2
Do these at your VO2 level, and keep your stroke count/time even. So if your time for the first 25 at stroke count 15 is :15(x), you should be at 30/:30. Do this through the first set, then the second time around take your time (x) and go x minus :01 for the 25 and 2x minus :02 for the 50’s, all while keeping your stroke count even.
Also, don’t be afraid to do some lactate sets every few weeks. Something like 10x100 on 5:00 holding your fastest possible time. Another good set we used to do was a failure set of 7 100’s on the 1:07, 3 times, with 2:00 between each set. If you miss one, you have to sit it out and get back in on the next interval.
Short VO2 sets, Lactate sets, and hard AT sets will make you faster if you incorporate them into your workouts. Yes, even 25’s will make you faster.
all these workouts are designed to increase LT and your steady state fitness. You need to do things to increase Vo2max and anaerobic capacity. 12.5’s, 50, 75’s, 100,s fast with decent rests to facilitate being able to maintain a fast velocity overthe entire set. So something like off the top of my head (years of being a swim coach will enable you to do that after all) 3-4x(4x12.5fast/12.5 very ez :20rest, 6x25 really fast :45 rest, 6-8x50fast :15, 100ez)
All I have ever done is swim a mile in my lake as fast as I can. Since I was never a swimmer, I cant stand to swim in the pool, so do short sprints. I am now trying. :o) to work on this high elbow thing. Trying to get a coach since I may be reading some of the examples here all wrong.
So, others have experience on what made you faster. Just short sprints, or like me so far, just long 30 minute swims.
all these workouts are designed to increase LT and your steady state fitness. You need to do things to increase Vo2max and anaerobic capacity. 12.5’s, 50, 75’s, 100,s fast with decent rests to facilitate being able to maintain a fast velocity overthe entire set. So something like off the top of my head (years of being a swim coach will enable you to do that after all) 3-4x(4x12.5fast/12.5 very ez :20rest, 6x25 really fast :45 rest, 6-8x50fast :15, 100ez)
I have no reason to disrespect your knowledge (I’ve never been a coach), but I haven’t done workouts like this since giving up Masters swimming in 1990 to move to the light (triathlons). My swim split at Eagleman in 2006 was in the top 5% of males overall (and 3rd in my AG) with no drafting benefit, and I’m an old guy in 45-49. The OP is 40-44, if that matters. In my three races this year (1/2 IM, sprint, and Olympic), nobody in my AG beat me onto the bike. Maybe I’m successful despite my training?
Most of my swimming, and I rarely do more than 8-10,000yds per week, is varying sets of 100s through 500s at faster than race pace, with as little rest as I can handle. That usually means holding 1:15/100 pace on no slower than 1:30/100 sendoff. Sets are usually between 1000 and 2000yds total. I’ve done things like 10x100 on 1:30, 7 on 1:25, 5 on 1:20, 3 on 1:15, 1 under 1:10. 10x200 on 2:40. 15x100 on 1:40, starting at 1:12 and dropping to 1:08 (more rest means go faster).
I’m more or less happy where I am in the water, so perhaps these workouts merely serve to maintain that speed. I did drop about :30 off my best 2000yd pool TT time from last year (down to 25:13 or so).
I’m not a coach, but I am an ex-fish. I agree with Ken, who put it much more eloquently than I could have.
The OP seems to be in “a happy no-mans land”, settling into a nice comfortable, unchallenging rhythm. I really don’t see the point of doing sprint work if you are focussing on IM. Sprint form is different from distance (just try to swim a 1500 the same way you swim a 50!!) The trick is to raise that happy no mans land, and I don’t see how sprint work will get you there in the most efficient manner.
Ken can do it on 8-10K per week, but he does have the benefit of years of masters swimming behind him. Those squats and preacher curls probably help as well. Bumping up the total yardage, or even keeping it the same by eliminating the 1000 yard workout and tacking that 1000 onto the 4500 yarder, as well as doing the stuff at just above threshold, short rest intervals, will yield more than sprint work for an IM length swim.
Jeepers,
just looking at all those numbers makes me ill. Never mind actually doing them. Why aren’t there more duathlons around? Very few people here seem to like swimming Good stuff tho, thx!
Sorry - back to topic…
As others have said, add intervals to your workout. Interval based workouts are the norm in swim training and for (obviously) good reason. Once you have decent technique down, you need to develop strength to go faster. Even more significant is the fact that increased swim specific strength will allow you to execute better technique which will also make you faster so you really get a double benefit from getting stronger.
Look at the body of any great swimmer, they did not get those batwing lats and huge shoulders doing long swims at a moderate pace.
Not despite your current training regimen, but because of your training in the past. I swim less than you (about 3-6 grand a week) and probably get out of the water ahead of you, not because of my training now, but because of my training then (like all ex-fish-you included). This doesn’t mean we couldn’t do better if we trained more, or trained properly.
The original poster needs to do not what we are doing now, but what we used to do (and what most USS/College/Masters teams do) in order to get better and go faster.
Not despite your current training regimen, but because of your training in the past. I swim less than you (about 3-6 grand a week) and probably get out of the water ahead of you, not because of my training now, but because of my training then (like all ex-fish-you included). This doesn’t mean we couldn’t do better if we trained more, or trained properly.
The original poster needs to do not what we are doing now, but what we used to do (and what most USS/College/Masters teams do) in order to get better and go faster.
To paraphrase badly what Sen. Bentsen once said, “I know fish, and I am no fish”. Not having done swim training until age 26, I can’t get away with your minimal swim without going all to hell.
Here’s what I did to get me to a 1:57 200yd free in less than three seasons of swim training, as an adult: I read everything I could find on swim technique, I borrowed swim technique videotapes (no steenkin’ Web back “in the day”), I got feedback from an on deck coach, I swam with good swimmers and watched everything they did and suffered big time at the back of the lane with their workouts (“10 10s (250s) on 3:15, go”), I did swim meets, and most importantly every length I swam had a purpose. Warmup, cooldown, drill, intervals, speed work. No mindless yards. I swam 4-6 times per week, never more than about 23,000yds in a week. But those were Swimmer Yards ™, not Triathlete Yards ™.
Over the course of the next 12 months, you need to quadruple your yardage. Swimming is just like anything else. You need to put in the work and the time.
Over the course of the next 12 months, you need to quadruple your yardage. Swimming is just like anything else. You need to put in the work and the time.
Are there really guys in 40-44 who do 60,000+ yards per week? That would explain why I couldn’t meet USMS Nats standards…
First, like Ken says, you should do sets of 100s through 500s, with limited rest, 10 to 15 seconds between 100s and no more than 60 seconds between 500s.
Second, over time, reduce your intervals over time, that is, if you are doing 100s on 1:45, do them on 1:40. When you can handle that, then drop the interval to 1:35. do the same with 200s, 300s, 400s, 500s etc.
Third, if you can do 10 x 100 on 1:45, then try to do 15 x 100 on 1:45. or 20 x 100 on 1:45.
Fourth, just try to swim a couple seconds faster per 100 on the same rest interval.
I would also disagree with the increased time/yardage. In my last two IM I swam a maximum of 5 times in the 8 months leading up to the race. Not 5 times a week, 5 times total. I used to totally muscle my way through a swim, and finished in the middle of the pack if I was lucky. What worked for me was to learn how to swim properly. It did not take long. In two months I went from finishing in the middle of the pack, to the front of the pack (local races; Im still no torpedo). Now, due to time constraints, I rarely train my swimming. In the big races, it shows (where there are talented folks present), but I can hold my own in the smaller races on very little to no swim practice. The difference is how you are swimming.
If you have acess to a masters group, that is good, but it still does not mean that you will improve your stroke. If you do swim drills, that also is good, but it does not mean that you will definately improve your stroke. What may help as a first step is to get a video of your stroke. Take any digital camera with movie function. Film above and below the water (I am not going to tell you how to do this, as I do not want to be responcible for ruining your camera, but a simple cheap solution works for me). Compare what you are doing with what the olympic swimmers are doing in the olympic swim flume (get the red cross video for WSI from the local red cross office).
SEEING what you are doing yourself might help correct errors that you may be making in your stroke better than someone telling you about it, or worse, just doing drills that are for specific problems that you do not know you may or may not have.
Anyway, it worked for me, and if I ever am able to put some more time in the pool, I hope to get a little closer to a torpedo.
The OP said he has a good stroke. I’m taking that at face value, and he probably does have a decent stroke if he’s swimming a 1:04 for an IM distance. > yardage and swimming at a slightly faster pace / short rest intervals is where I think the improvement will be, assuming the stroke is fundamentally sound. There is a reason that good swimmers swim a LOT of yards. More yards translates directly into more strength. I’m not saying to forget about technique work either, but if we are talking about what needs to change, then I think that is where its at.
Using my N=1 sample, I have a pretty close to perfect stroke, but I struggled to a 30min 1/2 IM swim in the only 1/2 I have ever done. Never done an IM, that is in the cards. The reason for that is lack of yardage, I could make bigger gains focussing on the run and bike. I figure I traded 5 mins on the swim for 15 on the run.
I am no pro, coach or super fast swimmer. Doing lots of fast intervals mixed in with longer sets seems to help me get faster. I have tried master class and that doesnt work for me, I think its geared towards the AG swimmer.
Good stuff tho, thx!