For the last two years I have been stuck at 33 minutes for my HIM races. This year I have been really focusing on my form and have made some significant improvements. The problem is I am REALLY fatigued after a 2000M workout. So I need to work on my endurance and I am considering using the “Swim workouts for Triathletes” book. It has a half iron plan that looks solid. Curious if anyone has used this and did it help them?
Any other recommendations would be appreciated as well. Thanks, PC
For the last two years I have been stuck at 33 minutes for my HIM races. This year I have been really focusing on my form and have made some significant improvements. The problem is I am REALLY fatigued after a 2000M workout. So I need to work on my endurance and I am considering using the “Swim workouts for Triathletes” book. It has a half iron plan that looks solid. Curious if anyone has used this and did it help them?
Any other recommendations would be appreciated as well. Thanks, PC
I have the “Workouts in a binder for Swimmers, Coaches, and Triathletes” book and have enjoyed it.
I think the workouts Sara McClarty posts on her blog are better, and these are free: http://www.mastersswimworkoutsbysaramclarty.blogspot.com/
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I go back and forth between the book mentioned and Sara’s free workouts. They are both great and keep things varied enough to not be boring.
It is a great book. However, nothing like long open water training to build endurance. No breaks. No walls to push off. Definitely continue with pool work, but in my opinion, swim endurance/stamina is best developed by swimming long with out walls to push-off of.
That is great. Thanks a ton!
It is a great book. However, nothing like long open water training to build endurance. No breaks. No walls to push off. Definitely continue with pool work, but in my opinion, swim endurance/stamina is best developed by swimming long with out walls to push-off of.
If it works for you, by all means keep it up. But if I had to guess you come form a running background. The endurance build of say, 5 x 400’s with 20-30 seconds rest performed at Zone 4 is going to be better than a 2000M straight swim. And unlike a run workout of similar nature (say 5 x 1mile repeats with 20 seconds rest at 5k pace) this kind workout can be done 6 days a week.
I think the workouts Sara McClarty posts on her blog are better, and these are free: http://www.mastersswimworkoutsbysaramclarty.blogspot.com/
Almost any of the “Swim in a binder” series are good, this is good, and you can also search for the monthly fishtwitch threads (Search posts by tigerchik to find them if necessary), and see what other people are posting up for workouts. There are some beast workouts in those threads.
John
You should ask your coach what he thinks of the swim in a binder series 
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The endurance build of say, 5 x 400’s with 20-30 seconds rest performed at Zone 4 is going to be better than a 2000M straight swim.
x2(2)(4).
I’m not even sure why this comes up anymore.
You should ask your coach what he thinks of the swim in a binder series
Nothing says you have to agree eye to eye with a coach on everything 
John
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Actually, I come from a sitting on my ass, drinking beer, and smoking cigarettes (and pot) background. Played a little baseball and football in high school, but have never been an endurance athlete before.
I agree with you that interval work is effective and important, which I why I said to continue working in the pool while also doing open water work. However, in my first tri (Olympic), I struggled badly with the swim leg - had to alternate 50 strokes free with 50 strokes breast for most of the distance (split was exactly 30:00 - awful). This was despite 4 days / week of swim training in a 50m pool (2 days / wk with masters, 2 days using the swim binder workouts). Changed my swim workouts to 2 days per week of long open water swims and 2 days per week with the masters (nothing wrong with the swim binder book, I just like swimming with the master’s group), and I am now doing 1-mile swims (that is to say, swims a bit longer than Oly dist) in 25 minutes on average (depends on effort and conditions).
All this said, however, I believe that training (and nutrition) are very personal. What works for one, won’t necessarily work for another. You have to be willing to self-experiment, keep logs, and eventually you’ll figure what works for you and what doesn’t. Just sharing my experience in the hopes of helping the thread author find a way to improve their swim.
Actually, I come from a sitting on my ass, drinking beer, and smoking cigarettes (and pot) background. Played a little baseball and football in high school, but have never been an endurance athlete before.
I agree with you that interval work is effective and important, which I why I said to continue working in the pool while also doing open water work. However, in my first tri (Olympic), I struggled badly with the swim leg - had to alternate 50 strokes free with 50 strokes breast for most of the distance (split was exactly 30:00 - awful). This was despite 4 days / week of swim training in a 50m pool (2 days / wk with masters, 2 days using the swim binder workouts). Changed my swim workouts to 2 days per week of long open water swims and 2 days per week with the masters (nothing wrong with the swim binder book, I just like swimming with the master’s group), and I am now doing 1-mile swims (that is to say, swims a bit longer than Oly dist) in 25 minutes on average (depends on effort and conditions).
All this said, however, I believe that training (and nutrition) are very personal. What works for one, won’t necessarily work for another. You have to be willing to self-experiment, keep logs, and eventually you’ll figure what works for you and what doesn’t. Just sharing my experience in the hopes of helping the thread author find a way to improve their swim.
Perhaps your pool workouts were not as effective as they could have been.
My first two open water swims of this year were the sprint and (sort of) Olympic distance races I did so far. Piece of cake for both of them (about 7th overall swim split in both), because my pool workouts were highly effective and didn’t involve doing much over 400 or 500 scy per interval. But I hammered everything I did all winter at well over race pace, so going race pace in a race was easy.
Ive never seen the book but I will say the way to increase speed is by doing lots of sprint’s with small break incriments in bewteen and making your lungs work for you. For example when I work on speed I do 10X100 at a a 1:35 pace meaning I have 1:35 to finish the 100 and any additional time to rest. Then I do something like 6X200 at a 3:30 pace and then work on extending my breaths by doing a pyramid workoit like doing a 100 then 200 400 600 400 200 100 with a minute break between each and breathing every 5 strokes. Those sort of workouts have increased my speed pretty quickly.
Actually, I come from a sitting on my ass, drinking beer, and smoking cigarettes (and pot) background. Played a little baseball and football in high school, but have never been an endurance athlete before.
I agree with you that interval work is effective and important, which I why I said to continue working in the pool while also doing open water work. However, in my first tri (Olympic), I struggled badly with the swim leg - had to alternate 50 strokes free with 50 strokes breast for most of the distance (split was exactly 30:00 - awful). This was despite 4 days / week of swim training in a 50m pool (2 days / wk with masters, 2 days using the swim binder workouts). Changed my swim workouts to 2 days per week of long open water swims and 2 days per week with the masters (nothing wrong with the swim binder book, I just like swimming with the master’s group), and I am now doing 1-mile swims (that is to say, swims a bit longer than Oly dist) in 25 minutes on average (depends on effort and conditions).
All this said, however, I believe that training (and nutrition) are very personal. What works for one, won’t necessarily work for another. You have to be willing to self-experiment, keep logs, and eventually you’ll figure what works for you and what doesn’t. Just sharing my experience in the hopes of helping the thread author find a way to improve their swim.
Perhaps your pool workouts were not as effective as they could have been.
My first two open water swims of this year were the sprint and (sort of) Olympic distance races I did so far. Piece of cake for both of them (about 7th overall swim split in both), because my pool workouts were highly effective and didn’t involve doing much over 400 or 500 scy per interval. But I hammered everything I did all winter at well over race pace, so going race pace in a race was easy.
Perhaps. Swimming is definitely my weakest discipline.
Ive never seen the book but I will say the way to increase speed is by doing lots of sprint’s with small break incriments in bewteen and making your lungs work for you. For example when I work on speed I do 10X100 at a a 1:35 pace meaning I have 1:35 to finish the 100 and any additional time to rest. Then I do something like 6X200 at a 3:30 pace and then work on extending my breaths by doing a pyramid workoit like doing a 100 then 200 400 600 400 200 100 with a minute break between each and breathing every 5 strokes. Those sort of workouts have increased my speed pretty quickly.
First post… hi there.
Anyways thanks for this thread, it’s nice to hear what works for some and doesn’t work for others.
I’ve never been a “trained” swimmer and have never participated in group workouts… most of my works have centered around endurance. As I’ve now pulled down other workouts and attempted to add speed into the equation I’ve quickly realized how ineffective my workouts may have been or at least inefficient.
I got out of the pool this morning, extremely unsatisfied with my workout as I simply couldn’t maintain the specified workout which had a focus on sprints. Is this one of those things where I just need to put my head down and hammer through? (Albeit I was a bit sore from getting back into a little bit of strength training).
That is one of about 6 sets I was doing in a day when I was training for the Olympic quals. The only difference was I was doing shorter splits and smaller amounts of rest between everything.
While long slow workouts are great for endurance, and are an analogous cross-over workout from runninglong-slow-distance, I’m really a fan of shorter intervals. If you’re not a strong swimmer, the best way to build some speed is by short, fast, anaerobic intervals and short aerobic intervals.
I’m a solid swimmer with a swimming background. I love long sets of 100’s on a short interval. Start with 10 by 100 on 2:00 or 2:15 and then work to get them faster and to do more of them. When I first got back into swimming shape after a long hiatus, I’d begin with 10 by 100 on 2:00. Eventually I did 50 by 100 on 1:30, which is as long as one could ever need for triathlon. A nice maintenance swim workout is 10 to 20 by 100.
I also recommend some all-out 25’s or 50’s. Rest can be longer, 20-60 seconds, since it’s anaerobic. Pull hard, focus on each stroke and glide, keep the stroke count low, and keep a picture of good technique in your mind so you don’t just windmill.
When you develop better speed, you can then extend it into longer swims, like straight 1,000’s. But intervals are really important in my opinion.
I agree with you that interval work is effective and important, which I why I said to continue working in the pool while also doing open water work. However, in my first tri (Olympic), I struggled badly with the swim leg - had to alternate 50 strokes free with 50 strokes breast for most of the distance (split was exactly 30:00 - awful). This was despite 4 days / week of swim training in a 50m pool (2 days / wk with masters, 2 days using the swim binder workouts). Changed my swim workouts to 2 days per week of long open water swims and 2 days per week with the masters (nothing wrong with the swim binder book, I just like swimming with the master’s group), and I am now doing 1-mile swims (that is to say, swims a bit longer than Oly dist) in 25 minutes on average (depends on effort and conditions).
All this said, however, I believe that training (and nutrition) are very personal. What works for one, won’t necessarily work for another. You have to be willing to self-experiment, keep logs, and eventually you’ll figure what works for you and what doesn’t. Just sharing my experience in the hopes of helping the thread author find a way to improve their swim.
I don’t like the arrogance some of the expert coaches display on this website. And I recognize that we are both trying to achieve the same thing, help others(!). So thank you for contributing to the narrative. That said you don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about (HA!).
Seriously though, you are likely giving advice that is counter productive and you are basing it on results that are dubious: 1) it is impossible to quantify how much of your improvement is attributable to the your continued swimming vs the changes you implemented in your program. 2) A 1500 in open water done 60% breaststroke / 40% freestyle in 30:00 indicates that you were - at that time - fully capable of swimming a mile freestyle done in around 25:00.
The reason that some swimmers find breaststroke easier than freestyle is the inherent respiration issues with freestyle. Specifically, the smaller breathing window in the freestyle stroke, the necessity of developing a breathing pattern and the coordination of the exhale within the body movement all make “breathing” difficult. In breaststroke your the respiration process comes naturally. Clearly you have improved your freestyle respiration. I could have spent one week with you one on one back when you were struggling and taught you the skill of proper respiration. And you then could have swam a mile of freestyle (only) in a pace approaching what you are doing now…
But finally: the number one key to swimming faster is to do it. And if you enjoy training that way and doing so encourages you to swim more, I say have at it. But be careful about telling people it lead to improvements that you wouldn’t have gotten in the pool doing interval training.
Not to digress from the OP question, but I think you meant 5x1 mile repeats with 2:00 rest at 5k pace, not 20 seconds rest. That workout can’t be done with 20 seconds rest. If it is, the person would not be running at 5k pace, more like half marathon pace.
No you are missing the point. Probably because I didn’t make it well. So I’ll redo:
Start with this: For the most part a 1500 swim takes about as long as a 5k. So I am assuming those to be “equivalent” distances.
From a training perspective it is completely possible to consistently (say 5 days in a row) swim 5x400’s at 1500 race pace with only 20-30 seconds rest (that is to say 5 x 5 minutes of upper zone 4 / lower zone 5 swimming with 20-30 seconds rest). Meanwhile it is neither possible nor advisable to attempt 5 x 5 minutes of upper zone 4/low zone 5 running with 20-30 seconds rest on day in day out basis.
So the point I am trying to make is that if you approach swim training remotely the way you approach run training you are making errors. Swim training can and should be done at an intensity level that is FAR greater than run training.