Swim: Thoracic Rotation & Spine Mobility

Triathlon Forum
1

I have been looking at or thinking about why and how the shoulders operate in the FS stroke.
Prompted after reading the Speed Demon swim book. ( eg. shoulders “heaving” while swimming.)

Top swimmers can swivel with no torso lift, the head is absolutely rock steady as if on a steel cable down the lane.
In contrast, I expose (or have dry) a lot of upper torso and back area - which doesn’t look right. Also my arms are typically running flatter in recovery.

Furthermore at the pool on Tuesday there were two great examples of this attribute.
Swimmer #1, IM racer - pretty good pace
Swimmer #2 , crazy smooth, easy stroke rate yet much faster, than any of us.

Swimmer#2 looked like his back was made of rubber vs Swimmer #1.

Well today at my Physio appointment, without any discussion about swimming, I found the answer. The PT said my thoracic region is blocked (or fused up). “We need to get that thoracic region loosened off or moving again properly on its own” and she gave me a specific shoulder-only rotation drill done off the Yoga child’s pose. The idea is to keep the lower back neutral and stable, while building rotational ROM in the upper half of the spine.

She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back.

Anyway for all the struggling runners and cyclists that take up swimming, beside shoulder joint mobility, this has to be one of the defining factors. And like most things in swimming, virtually an invisible issue to the untrained eye.

2

Can you explain how to do this drill in more detail?
Thanks
,

3

I’ve also found that Thoracic Rolling helps to get the mobility back in this part of the arms/shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQkVD0UQNg

4

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.

"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?

I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.

5

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.

"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?

I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.

You’ve never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express? They’re usually pretty nice, I highly recommend it.

6

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.

"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?

I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.

The spine is delineated in 3 regions - cervical, thoracic, and lumbar. Cervical is the neck, thoracic is the upper back, and lumbar is the lower back. The thoracic spine rotates well (movement in the transverse plane), but the lumbar does not. When one part of the body isn’t doing it’s job well, our brains and bodies will compensate to make the movement happen, even if it’s less efficient, or even injurious. Injuries can frequently be traced back to this type of movement dysfunction. For example, knee injuries are frequently initiated by an ankle or hip that isn’t working well, and lower back pain and injuries are frequently the result of inadequate hip and/or thoracic spine mobility. (This is one of the common reasons that aging amateur golfers “throw out” their lower back. If they spend time maintaining hip and thoracic mobility through appropriate strength training, it usually corrects the problem.)

The OP is saying that because their thoracic spine isn’t rotating adequately, rotation is occurring farther down the spine in the lumbar region. Short term, it’s probably affecting performance. Long term, it increases the likelihood of injury to the lumbar spine.

7

I’ve also found that Thoracic Rolling helps to get the mobility back in this part of the arms/shoulder.

THIS>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQkVD0UQNg

Holy spine popper. Vertebrae sounded like kernels in the microwave. I have been doing that thoracic roll with my elbows on the tarmac (matt). Putting your arms around the head there is no hiding the fury!! Whoa. That’s good.

The last rotation in the video above accomplishes about the same thing as the child’s pose rotation. On the drill Jennifer gave me my first comment was “can I load this up” ie it was too mild. Yes you can by hooking therabands to anchors or wrapping a band on your shoulder and hooking in on the feet.

  1. Sit on your feet, knees on the matt/floor.
  2. Elbows down on the floor in front of the knees, arms forward (like in aero)
  3. Take one hand and place on one shoulder
  4. Rotate the other shoulder as far as possible, not lifting head or disturbing lower back etc.

I am not sure it’s that effective. Have to rig something up for more twist.

8

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.

"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?

I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.

The spine is delineated in 3 regions - cervical, thoracic, and lumbar. Cervical is the neck, thoracic is the upper back, and lumbar is the lower back. The thoracic spine rotates well (movement in the transverse plane), but the lumbar does not. When one part of the body isn’t doing it’s job well, our brains and bodies will compensate to make the movement happen, even if it’s less efficient, or even injurious. Injuries can frequently be traced back to this type of movement dysfunction. For example, knee injuries are frequently initiated by an ankle or hip that isn’t working well, and lower back pain and injuries are frequently the result of inadequate hip and/or thoracic spine mobility. (This is one of the common reasons that aging amateur golfers “throw out” their lower back. If they spend time maintaining hip and thoracic mobility through appropriate strength training, it usually corrects the problem.)

The OP is saying that because their thoracic spine isn’t rotating adequately, rotation is occurring farther down the spine in the lumbar region. Short term, it’s probably affecting performance. Long term, it increases the likelihood of injury to the lumbar spine.

Yes above is correct. But wait there’s more to this Thoracic story. After a solid rolling and twisting session I hit the Vancouver Aquatic on the way to a meeting…

What I noticed most was because my Thoracic spine had been flattened off (vs being like a humpback!) & my breathing became easier, even toward effortless. Really nice. Chest was settled in lower, but head was nicely position in the wave pocket presumably riding higher. So that explains why my swim coach was “seeing a lot back” when I was swimming. With a proper spine alignment, the whole body will be more level. I think the rotation part will take a bit more time, and I did notice some improvement.

Did another roll session when I got back & it’s big difference in intensity doing this per the Renkens video posted. THANKS!

9

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.

"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?

I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.

This is almost as funny as your old moniker ‘old and slow’
I’d take you over swimmer number 2 any day, even at your (and my) advanced age–not super pretty, just FAST!

10

I’m not particularly bright, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (or ever), but I have no idea what you are talking about in this post. So many terms you use I’ve never come across in swimming discussions.
"She said swimming alone will not accomplish this, because you will simply transfer the rotation down toward the lower back. " The rotation has to go somewhere, doesn’t it?
I am a pretty decent adult-onset swimmer, though.
This is almost as funny as your old moniker ‘old and slow’
I’d take you over swimmer number 2 any day, even at your (and my) advanced age–not super pretty, just FAST!

OK funny guys, old and slow. Yes one of the things that degrades with time and physical stress of sitting, riding, whatever - is posture. I’ve taken the time to explain the effect when it comes to swimming.
If the thoracic region is elevated, ala the humpback whale (top), this is a drag inducing profile. Flatten that out and the head sits higher, the center of buoyancy is positioned lower, raising the back end (hips). Obviously (if you know boat design) a nice straight hull will zip through the water vs a warped one! C’mon this is a no-brainer.

So the most pronounced effect of the re-habing the thoracic region is you profile. In addition your propulsion is improved as well as the shoulders move better around a spine that is articulating (close to) properly.

I’ve been rolling 2x a day per the video linked in this thread. I notice it most immediately on fly and dolphin, but my freestyle is way smoother too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiOSLIhUoAAG_Cd.jpg