I have been playing around with my stroke, and was wondering what is your stroke rate and distance per stroke for an Olympic and IM ?
Kind of depends if you are 6’5" or 5’6"
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I’m not a good swimmer.
36min for 2000m @ 25 strokes per minute = 2.22m per stroke.
177cm tall.
This is Pace vs stroke rate for some of the best swimmers
Could make a very rough estimate of DPS based on heights
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First, let’s be clear what we are really talking about: Stroke Rate is largely a proxy for Hand Speed, and as proxies go, it’s a decent one. Hand Speed directly effects the force equation, and while it is possible to have decent hand speed at a moderately slow stroke rate, they are far from independent variables. They are fairly well correlated. Hand speed is what we really want. Hand speed creates force, and properly applied force increases propulsion.
There is no ideal stroke rate. Even the casual observations that 1. most improving swimmers increase their rate or 2. open water swimmers have a higher stroke rate or 3. somewhere between (arbitrary) 1.2 and 1.8 seconds/cycle is universal… might all be bad advice for you.
Ideal stroke rate should be seen as an effect of proper swimming, not a cause. Simiular to cadence on the bike. .
Not a whole lot to go on huh? All that is not to say that there aren’t tools the swimmer can use to explore different stroke rates and the effects they have on speed and efficiency.
One of the tools I developed is a simple activity called “The Happy Medium”. Not a drill so much as an awareness building & speed-play activity, happy medium is simply alternating one length at a very high stroke rate with another length at a very high distance per stroke (low rate). Keep in mind we are focusing on hand speed, as opposed to swimming speed.
For the high rate lengths, the idea is to achieve the highest possible sustainable turnover rate. How can you make it sustainable? How does the head movement fit into the stroke timing? Like switching into a small gear on a bicycle, you will shorten the stroke length, decreasing the amount of time during each stroke that you are applying force. By combining this shortened effective area with a high turnover rate, your overall swimming speed will most likely NOT decrease substantially. Maybe it goes up?
That is not to say that one of those extreme rates is the proper way for you to swim. It probably is not. It has given you a place to start your own exploration. Your single starting point of stroke rate awareness has now expanded into a bubble. Hopefully. Put it to the clock.
To play around with this on your own, it can be helpful to have an understanding of kick timing and how it relates to both a 2 beat and a 6 beat kick. This isn’t required but it can deepen the understanding that the activity imparts. For the high stroke rate lengths, it is advisable to only turnover as fast as can be synchronized with a 2 beat kick. For alternate low rate lengths, do not exceed a 6 beat kick (lest you simply kick your way down the lane). Within those kick rhythm constraints, don’t be afraid to get pretty radical
I’m not a good swimmer.
36min for 2000m @ 25 strokes per minute = 2.22m per stroke.
177cm tall.
NO ONE, not even Sun Yang at 6’6", gets 2.2 meters per stroke. In swimming we count each arm pull as a stroke. I think your 25/min must be stroke cycles/min, e.g. you’re prob measuring via a watch that counts each time your left hand comes over. In traditional swimming terms you’re taking 50 strokes/min with distance per stroke about 1.1 meter/stroke.
That makes sense. Thought my stroke rate seemed crazy slow v the chart.
Thanks!
This is Pace vs stroke rate for some of the best swimmers
Could make a very rough estimate of DPS based on heights
Actually, we don’t need height to calculate distance per stroke (DPS). For example, Hackett swam around 58 sec per 100 m in his 1500 m WR and took about 76 strokes per minute. Taking out about 6 sec and 14 m for his 2 turns/100 m, he is going about 52 sec of actual swimming per 100 m. 52/60 = 0.87 min * 76 SPM = 66 strokes/86 m or 86 m/66 strokes = 1.30 m/stroke = DPS.
Taking out about 6 sec and 14 m for his 2 turns/100 m
He wasn’t 14m underwater per turn. Probably closer to 5-6m.
Taking out about 6 sec and 14 m for his 2 turns/100 m
He wasn’t 14m underwater per turn. Probably closer to 5-6m.
I was giving 14 meters for 2 turns, since he turns twice during each 100 m. If we use say 5 m/turn, then 90 m/66 strokes = 1.36 m/stroke vs 1.30 at 7 m/turn.
Kind of depends if you are 6’5" or 5’6"
Yes, this
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I was curious about height and distance per stroke so I went and watched a couple of swimmers in freestyle events.
Just to be sure I deliberately chose a distance and a sprint event with a female in the sprint event. Figuring the stroke rate for a 100 sprint would be high.
Bobby Finke won the Men’s 1500m Freestyle at Worlds this week with a pretty consistent 34 strokes per length and Maggie Mac Neil (who specializes in butterfly at worlds) won the Canadian Nationals 100m Freestyle with 36 strokes (2nd length). Which, with allowing 6m for each turn gives 1.3m and 1.2m per stroke.
He’s 6’1" and she’s 5’ 5 1/2". Their strokes per minute would be similarly above 70.
Surprised me that the difference was so small.
My own experience is 1.07 'ish over 1500 open water, wearing a wetsuit and taking twice as long as Mr. Finke to get there (I’m not far off your pace). which would translate to about 47 strokes per minute (one arm one stroke). If I kicked at all that might mean fewer strokes. but I don’t…**:0) **
My read from that is if you want to go faster you need to be able to increase your stroke rate.
Bobby Finke won the Men’s 1500m Freestyle at Worlds this week…….
He had the fastest time in prelîms today. The final is tomorrow.
NO ONE, not even Sun Yang at 6’11", gets 2.2 meters per stroke. In swimming //
Catchin up with this thread, and loving all the swimming happening this week. But have to be the swim police here once again, Yang was not 6’11", he was 6’6". He would have been funneled into the national basketball program if he were really almost 7ft tall. And he would take 27 to 28 strokes per lap in his championship swims where he would average 58’s for each 100 meters.
He was also one of the first to use the double alternate breathing technique that Gary Hall came on here and promoted many, many years ago. I now see it used all the time, especially among distance guys in short course pools.
Surprised at Titmus mediocre 800 swim, was really thinking she would give Katie a race. But suppose that is the cutoff between speed and endurance, and no one in the history of swimming is in Katies league once speed is not a determining factor. And hard to believe she is still only 26 years old, seems like she should be mid 30’s will all she has done, and for how long she has been doing it…
Been a great meet for the Aussies, they are going to be formidable in Paris next year. Not sure how we can close the gap on the relays, especially when they have 2 or 3 of the fastest in the world in those events…
And I’m wondering if the French are going to be able to build some competitive relays around Leon in a year too. Its a tough call to tire him out for no medal chances, but with their new 100 fly champion, maybe they can muster up a couple more guys and gals to get into those middle lanes. They have that history of male 100 sprinters, just need to expand that out a bit, and stretch some to the 200 distances…
NO ONE, not even Sun Yang at 6’11", gets 2.2 meters per stroke. In swimming //
Catchin up with this thread, and loving all the swimming happening this week. But have to be the swim police here once again, Yang was not 6’11", he was 6’6". He would have been funneled into the national basketball program if he were really almost 7ft tall. And he would take 27 to 28 strokes per lap in his championship swims where he would average 58’s for each 100 meters.
He was also one of the first to use the double alternate breathing technique that Gary Hall came on here and promoted many, many years ago. I now see it used all the time, especially among distance guys in short course pools.
Surprised at Titmus mediocre 800 swim, was really thinking she would give Katie a race. But suppose that is the cutoff between speed and endurance, and no one in the history of swimming is in Katies league once speed is not a determining factor. And hard to believe she is still only 26 years old, seems like she should be mid 30’s will all she has done, and for how long she has been doing it…
Been a great meet for the Aussies, they are going to be formidable in Paris next year. Not sure how we can close the gap on the relays, especially when they have 2 or 3 of the fastest in the world in those events…
And I’m wondering if the French are going to be able to build some competitive relays around Leon in a year too. Its a tough call to tire him out for no medal chances, but with their new 100 fly champion, maybe they can muster up a couple more guys and gals to get into those middle lanes. They have that history of male 100 sprinters, just need to expand that out a bit, and stretch some to the 200 distances…
OK, you’re right about Sun’s height as Wiki has him at 6’6"; not sure why I thought 6’11", should’ve checked with Dr. Google first. I too was surprised Ariarne did not give Katie a closer race in the 800 but as you and Tim have said, there’s always a trade-off between speed and endurance as the races get longer. And regarding the Aussies, given that their population is only 26.4 million, it is totally amazing that they produce so many great swimmers. Maybe if every elementary school in the U.S. either had a pool or access to a pool, and all kids were required to pass a swim test at age 8, then we might have more top swimmers also. On the other hand, swimming in the U.S. is super competitive as it is. 
Thanks. You’re right it was either the last or almost last heat.
I’ll check the winners stroke rate…
Surprised at Titmus mediocre 800 swim, was really thinking she would give Katie a race.
Equal personal best, so that’s likely her upper limit.
I will be surprised if she pursues the 800 (seriously) in the future.
I have been playing around with my stroke, and was wondering what is your stroke rate and distance per stroke for an Olympic and IM ?
I hate this video. It seems like an undisguised attempt to discredit a competitor (Brenton Ford, Effortless Swimming) in order to promote his own programme.
British Triathlon insist that as a coach you teach through the Swim Smooth syllabus, as they’re partnered with him. In my opinion, and experience as a coach, the methods promoted by Effortless Swimming work far better - particularly for adult triathletes who have not been swimmers in their youth (this makes up 99% of my athletes).
My read from that is if you want to go faster you need to be able to increase your stroke rate.
Only if you can hold your distance per stroke (DPS). Stroke Rate (Tempo) x Stroke Length (DPS) = speed/pace
Beginning swimmers are usually most concerned with their distance per stroke when they start because that is the bench mark of efficiency in swimming. It includes your technique, body position, fitness, etc. It takes a long time to develop a stroke and your fitness to support that stroke.
A good analogy is if you ever played music growing up. If you got a new, difficult piece of music with a very fast tempo, did you start playing the piece at the very high tempo at the start?
Triathletes tend to worry about tempo a little too much given the amount of time they typically train. You technique will only be as good as the swim specific fitness you have to support it.
Tim