7,500/wk is honestly nothing. What you are doing in a week is maybe one practice for swimmers. Increase the frequency and length of your swims, and you will easily break through your “plateau”. Good luck.
Double that yardage!
if you want to get technical, you might calculate your stroke distance index. you can plot pace vs distance and do a power fit in excel (i did it for myself in this thread http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4389319;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;#4393742). gives you an indication of your speed vs stamina (I think this is what you are asking for).
but if your top speed will almost certainly improve with more swimming if you are only at 7500 yds/wk. your technique may also improve.
GAUG and mungub are right that 7,500 yards is not a lot for a serious swimmer but that’s not your problem. I completely disagree that volume is your problem. I used to swim slower than you on similar volume. When an all out effort only gets you 1:28/hundred (I remember the feeling) fitness is absolutely not the problem. You’re just not efficient enough. You absolutely have a technique problem. Ask someone to watch you swim and report back to you about the angle of your body in the water. I’m almost certain they’ll say your body is significantly sloped, i.e, your shoulders at or close to the surface and your hips 18 inches below the surface. It is literally impossible to swim fast like this no matter how fit you are. There’s just too much water resistance.
If you want to get faster you need to begin a dedicated program of improving your technique. I used Total Immersion. I bought the book (Triathlon Swimming Made Easy), did one session with a TI coach and then worked on the drills on my own. It took a year of spending at least half my pool time doing drills (this may have been excessive; you might be able to get away with 20 minutes of drills four times a week).
Last season I did a properly measured olympic swim in 24 minutes swimming easy (2 beat kick, breathing every 4 strokes). A few weeks ago I did 8 x 200 yards on 3:20 with 30 seconds rest (i.e., 1:25/100 yards; with open turns). These are not special numbers for a swimmer or even a good triathlete but they keep me in the mix and they’re a big improvement from where I was when I was swimming on a slant like I described above.
Honestly, both your technique and fitness are probably at issue. I would suspect you have a problem with your body position if that’s your top speed. But swimming more or improving your technique would both yield results.
In addition to directly working on these by swimming more and finding a good coach, I’d also suggest looking at some of the technique threads on here and also doing some fast but not all out 25s. These are a good way to figure out what works and how you can get faster. The effort should be controlled but fast, not thrashing.
So I am similar to the OP, what would you helped you the most to get horizontal in the water (i.e. high hips)?
I’ve gotten a little faster, I did improve my head position a little by looking down at the bottom of the pool more. I could feel the difference, however I think I still am not horizontal.
Also, how much would you say the kick is in helping swim at 1:30/ 100 yrds? I have not really been focusing on the kick, but think maybe I should?
The kick will help balance you out in the water and help prevent the sinking feeling. I do have one thing that I have found very helpful to get my hips higher in the water, but it does sound strange… think of the clinching that you do to hold off from going to the bathroom (#1) and your butt/hips will honestly pop up immediately. It kind of engages your lower core and really helps.
So I am similar to the OP, what would you helped you the most to get horizontal in the water (i.e. high hips)?
Use a pull buoy.
My first year in triathlon I did a ton of work on my kick and I basically just raised my hips by kicking really hard, not for propulsion, just to keep from sinking. Then I started Total Immersion drills and I drastically improved my balance and switched to a 2 beat kick because I no longer needed the kick to keep my hips high. Now I use a 2 beat kick except when I’m swimming faster than 1:25/100 yards.
At your level technique is your limiter. Big volume (and today I will swim more than you do in a week) will obviously get you fitness gains, but the extra time in the water will give you a better feel for the water and your technique will naturally improve. Post a viseo of you swimming…
Honestly, both your technique and fitness are probably at issue. I would suspect you have a problem with your body position if that’s your top speed. But swimming more or improving your technique would both yield results.
In addition to directly working on these by swimming more and finding a good coach, I’d also suggest looking at some of the technique threads on here and also doing some fast but not all out 25s. These are a good way to figure out what works and how you can get faster. The effort should be controlled but fast, not thrashing.
I agree it’s both and working on one will improve the other too.
I have been swimming for close to ten years now, half of my life so far, and I still have room to improve my technique. For a few weeks early this season my coach had me swimming ~2000 yard practices of nothing but 25s, mixing it up between sprint and perfect stroke/drill sets until my form was near perfect as I’m going to get. My stroke changed markedly for the better. Now I swim 20-25k per week, confidant that my form is solid and I can work on improving my times. Now that I’m done bragging, my advice is always aim to improve form first when it comes to swimming. The time drops will follow (relatively) easily. Yes swimming will still be hard when you have good form, but swimming 2000 yards without doing a flipturn is absolute hell.
I agree with what a few have said and it is likely both a technique and fitness issue. Dan Empfield wrote a real good article on the main page a little while back about the “high cost of form” which basically laid out the argument that in order to swim with good technique, you need good swim fitness because swimming with good technique is hard. I think this is clearly true for all aspects of your stroke, but maybe most for body position given it takes time to teach your body to be taut in the water.
I’ve been swimming for a about a 1.5 years now and I was at a similar point as you about a half year in and I took my volume from 7500 yards a week to about 12000 yards and saw my 400 times come down from 1:45 to 1:35…then about a year in I hit another “plateau” and upped the volume to closer to 15000 yards a week (including 2 big swims of 5000 yards each) and saw that 400 pace go from 1:35 to 1:27ish.
Anyways, this is all just my opinion and there are far far better swimmers than me on this forum, but for what it’s worth, I was in your shoes just a little while ago.
- I swam more and as a part of this more included long 90 minute swims on a 2:00 base and now closer to 1:50/1:45 base
- I focused on technique during warmup/cooldown and also during easier recovery swims…for body position I got an ankle band and started using it with a big buoy, then phased down to a smaller one, and now will even do shorter sets on more rest without a buoy. I kick on my side once a week, swim with my fists, etc, etc but only on days where the focus is recovery.
**Get those big swims in with big main sets to gain the fitness you need to hold the form you are learning. **
Be careful with running/biking before you swim. I know it’s more convenient that way (nothing like the pool shower, haha) but that can zap the quality of your swim. On recovery swim days that’s fine, but on the days when you really want to go for it in the pool, I would swim first. Also, I’ll be aggressive and take the high end of your 10-12 hours.
Swim 4 hours a week (2x1.5 fitness building sessions, 2x30 minute easy/recovery swims)
Bike 5-6 hours a week
Run 2-3 hours a week
It is certainly hard to fit it all in and keep growing across all three sports at once, but I’m sure you can figure out a way to get in the swim volume if that really is your biggest limiter.
If those numbers accurate, then judging by your 50 and 100 times your fatigue rate is only 2% - you are likely to be propulsion limited.
In adult onset swimmers this often has to do with the catch and the dreaded dropped elbow.
Your next step is probably some sculling to develop feel for the water in midpoint scull in particular you basically hang out at the halfway point of your pull and do the whole thing with your wrists directly below your elbows.
I also like some single arm free with a buoy pausing so that by the time your are halfway through the pull, your elbow is directly below your shoulder and wrist is directly below your elbow. MOST adult onset swimmers will have their wrist trailing their elbow at this point in the stroke. Paying attention to it is the first step, the other other step is to work on the internal shoulder rotation stretch (google it).
If you do one thing without the other you can end up with anterior impingement or what is commonly called biceps tendonitis, though it may not be biceps tendonitis at all.
A lot of people talk about early vertical forearm, I have yet to hear anyone say what that is in definite terms. I laid out above what I think a good catch is for an adult onset swimmer, or any really. The people who define early vertical forearm on the internet there is usually a link to a freeze frame of an olympic swimmer showing a degree of shoulder abduction and internally rotation that would be preposterous for an adult onset swimmer to attempt. But on the other hand there is never a method to quantify what it actually is or how much of it one should have. Well, I did find one study, but I don’t think any of us have synced 60fps underwater camera calibrated to reference volumes with a gaggle of grad assistants to do the analysis for us.
That’s why I defined a good catch the way I did.
At any rate, as I said my first suspicion would be propulsion limited. Of course, I could be wrong.
Good luck
I can’t seem to get my elbows high in the water to catch water earlier, but I will try the sculling and see if that helps.
You should be doing the stretching.
I really don’t think yardage has anything to do with it. Last season I raced in open water around 1:20/100yd and in the pool usually only saw around 1:35/100yd. I didn’t swim from october to mid february and really only within the last 2 months started hitting the pool again. I swim maybe 6000yds a week and have watched my times in pool drop significantly. I drilled the first few weeks barely doing any straight swims. Just drill after drill for 1800-2200 yards 2-3 times a week. Now in the last month or so I started doing straight swims again and interval work. Here are some of my averages now and every week they drop 2-3 seconds. I do a free swim in beginning of week really concentrating on form, the 100’s midweek, and finish off the week with the 200’s. Thats my routine thats all I’ve been doing and its working fine.
1:18-1:20/100yd - 15x100 on :20 rest
2:50-2:53/200yd - 12x200 on :20 rest
I don’t do flip turns either I do pretty ugly open turns too. I don’t think my fitness would be any better then you at this point so I don’t think yardage or fitness is the issue its just technique. I average 15 strokes per 25yd. Sure yardage may help in terms of giving you more time to think and work on your stroke but I think if you make each lap count and really think about and concentrate on what your doing then you dont need the extra yardage unless your end goal is a long course swim.
what drills are you doing. I am in about the same situation and wonder what type of drills are best. I know one size does not fit all but in general. Thanks
All the usual drills really nothing out of the ordinary just focused on the technique and did it over and over. Never really did any kicking drills, I feel I have a pretty rhythmic and solid kick. I would do a mix of the following on diff days.
tennis ball / fist
catch up
one arm stroke
finger tip drag
side breathing with fins
kick on side
pull with bouy
Like others have said, it’s probably a combination of technique and lack of volume that are holding you back. I was in a similar situation last year, swimming 2-3x a week for 6,000-9,000 yards, and didn’t make a ton of gains. I swam a 34:xx HIM, but was still far back coming out of the water. I’m hoping to be closer to 30:xx this season.
This offseason I’ve put in a swim focus, swimming 4-5 times per week, and around 13,000-16,000 yards/week, still not a lot by swimming standards, but I’ve made solid gains.
My 500 TT has gone from around 8:00 in January to 7:13 two weeks ago (1:36 pace to 1:27 pace), and I’m hoping to get down to 7:00 soon. My 100 times have dropped from doing them on 1:45 and touching around 1:32 to now touching around 1:23 on a 1:40 send-off. More volume and thinking about proper technique have helped me make my gains. I’m hoping I’ll be close to 1:20 pace on my hundreds (on 1:35 send-off) by mid June.
I know there’s only so much time in the week for training, but if swimming is your weakness, it should be addressed. I know there’s the argument that a lot of time needs to be spent to improve your swim and that the swim is only a small percentage of a tri. However, if you can maintain or increase your run and bike fitness and also increase your swim fitness you’ll definitely do better.