I would like to reduce my swim times and I keep hearing that I need to increase my volume. However, assuming I do not have time to spend any more time in the pool, will swimming harder while I’m there do the trick or will I see no improvement at all? Thanks.
Seems anything more one can do the more chance it might help you.
But, there is no easy way to get much better swimming than spending time from anyone
I have talked with.
Also, I was not able to swim hard, until I had enough volume in to be in some type of swim shape.
Dave
The best way to reduce your swim times would be to hire someone to help you. You can ‘swim harder’ but if that means you are just splashing more water then its not going to be much help. Improved stroke technique will do you more good.
By “swimming harder” do you mean faster intervals?
Your best bet is to work on technique… and then swim “hard”
assuming your stroke is descent… i would say swim harder… as an added bonus, by swimming harder, you stroke has a tendency to get better by itself. I’ve trained both ways, swimming 25-30k/wk, as well as doing 15k/week but with a very focused 1500-2000 m/workout all at threshold pace…and I find that when i’m swimming less overall volume but more quality, my times across the board are faster. My coach has me do essentially nothing longer then 200’s, with total workout volume no more then 3.5k = ~1h.
Here are some quotes I’ve found in a very interesting Crucible Fitness (Rich Strauss) article :
“The bench mark I’ll give you is about 24:00 for a 1500. That is about what a below average USS 13 year-old boy with a decent stroke can do. Until you beat that skinny little kid, a large portion of your pool time should be spent in stroke improvement. This speed is probably 80% technique and 20% fitness.”
And
" swimming more yards with a bad stroke only reinforces a bad stroke. An athlete should increase the length or number of repetitions only after he has demonstrated the ability to maintain a consistent stroke count. "
Here’s the link for the full length article :
http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/swimtechnique1.htm
What do you mena by swimming harder? Longer intervals, shorter rests? More intervals? How poor is your stroke?
Like the bike, quality is important, but you need saddle/pool time imo.
Swimming lots develops your feeling for the water, and allows you to tweak things as you go along.
Here are some quotes I’ve found in a very interesting Crucible Fitness (Rich Strauss) article :
“The bench mark I’ll give you is about 24:00 for a 1500. That is about what a below average USS 13 year-old boy with a decent stroke can do. Until you beat that skinny little kid, a large portion of your pool time should be spent in stroke improvement. This speed is probably 80% technique and 20% fitness.”
And
" swimming more yards with a bad stroke only reinforces a bad stroke. An athlete should increase the length or number of repetitions only after he has demonstrated the ability to maintain a consistent stroke count. "
Here’s the link for the full length article :
http://www.cruciblefitness.com/...s/swimtechnique1.htm
So that’s about a 1:27 pace (assuming meters here). Faster than 80-90% of triathletes?
As a crappy swimmer, who has tried throwing yardage at the problem to literally zero effect, I have to agree. Technique is everything. Now, I’m not sure Rich has it all right… I pass his test of not allowing stroke count to rise by more than 10%. And I’m pretty sure my technique limits me WAY more than my fitness.
24:00 is 1:36/100m. definitely doable if you’re willing to put in the mileage.
Both, swim long sets, and swim hard sets. Most important is just keep swimming. I have found frequency to big a big key. I swim 5x/week in the winter m,w,f,s,s. That f,s,s,m of 4 days in a row seems to really work for getting a good feel for the water. Always listen to good swimmers when they give constructive criticism to you. The increase in frequency, at least for me gives me better body awareness in the water, which allows me to be more mindful of proper stroke mechanics. That more than anything allows you to make changes.
I swim about 15k/week off season, and about 12k during race season over 4 workouts. I pick up a cycling day, but the trade off is I lose a swim day.
24:00 is 1:36/100m. definitely doable if you’re willing to put in the mileage.
I meant 1:27 100y, assuming the 1500 is meters.
Totally doable. Better get the technique first, though. I have lots of yards in me, and can’t do ONE 100y in 1:27.
Two suggestions:
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Coach
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Masters Swim
You need to learn how to swim…then the speed will come!
No one has asked how much you are swimming now. If you’re swimming for 30 minutes twice a week, not much you do will matter.
I’ve been trying all day to figure out what swim “hard” means. I think if I swim “hard” I thrash and don’t go anywhere (well, relatively speaking). I know what swimming easy feels like - nice and relaxed and all pretty. I think I have two speeds: “easy” and “actually try.” but I am just being picky about words
Once you have your technique solid, longer tempo type swims will decrease your times. For longer races (IM, 1/2IM) you should be spending less time on speed and more on endurance.
Longer sets at tempo pace. Like 10X200m or doing pyramids 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 400, 300,200, 100.
Not to say, forsake speed, but maybe limit your 50 or 100 repeats to once a week and or make it part of a workout that you do a longer set (say 1000m). Doing long TT’s (2000+m) can also help. I dropped my IM swim time by 8 min. doing these sorts of workouts. That being said, I am very strong technically.
It would benefit you to have one workout a week that reaches around 5000m as well.
Here are some quotes I’ve found in a very interesting Crucible Fitness (Rich Strauss) article :
“The bench mark I’ll give you is about 24:00 for a 1500. That is about what a below average USS 13 year-old boy with a decent stroke can do. Until you beat that skinny little kid, a large portion of your pool time should be spent in stroke improvement. This speed is probably 80% technique and 20% fitness.”
And
" swimming more yards with a bad stroke only reinforces a bad stroke. An athlete should increase the length or number of repetitions only after he has demonstrated the ability to maintain a consistent stroke count. "
Here’s the link for the full length article :
http://www.cruciblefitness.com/...s/swimtechnique1.htm
So that’s about a 1:27 pace (assuming meters here). Faster than 80-90% of triathletes?
As a crappy swimmer, who has tried throwing yardage at the problem to literally zero effect, I have to agree. Technique is everything. Now, I’m not sure Rich has it all right… I pass his test of not allowing stroke count to rise by more than 10%. And I’m pretty sure my technique limits me WAY more than my fitness.
That’s about 1m34 per 100 metres pace. 1m26 per 100 yards
Less than 24:00 for a 1500m and still work mostly on technique? That is a load of crap! You should spend time on technique, but I would go with 20:00 for 1000m as a bench mark. More swimming focusing on technique. Swim lots of freestyle, but focus hard on maintaining good technique over the longer distances. This will get you faster. You can only drill so much. I find that people spend way too much time doing the drills and not enough time applying what they learn in the drills to their swimming.
I should add that I have the technique pretty much down (although I know you can always improve technique). I am an Ironman and have been a triathlete for some time. I just did IM in November and I am only training for Olympics this season, so I should definitely have my base. I’m trying to transform myself into a faster swimmer from being more of a slow distance swimmer. At this point I swim about 3-4 times a week. Just starting my training two weeks ago, I’m about at 1500 for a total swim workout now. I know people swear by distance, but considering I still have a lot of my base from IM and I’m only doing Olympics, I was hoping that I wouldn’t have to do those 4300 yd slow sets anymore and I could do mostly fast stuff. What say all of you?
Well if you are only swimming 1500 per workout, I’d suggest bumping the volume up. I know people, not swimmers either, who take off multiple months and 2km is about the minimal they will swim coming back.
So i would 1. Increase the total volume per week by increasing swim volume per workout.
2. As far as swimming 4300 slow sets, you can do repeats that are not slow. By slow do you mean long? I think you need to look at set design to get out of the slow rut.
3. IMO the training for an IM and a OLY is not to much different.