Swim help for a non-swimmer

Triathlon Forum
1

First-let me just say I am looking for honest, flame-free help. I began taking TI lessons last year. The actual first time I dove into the deep end of the pool was November 05. At that time when I kicked on my back I would actually move backwards instead of being propelled forwards. That gives you some kind of idea where I was - I did absolutely no swimming as a kid. Fast forward to now = I feel very comfortable in the water. I have done the TI thing and spent alot of time doing drills. More recently I have been getting help from a former high school swim coach. He did change several things that I doing (over rotating, picked up my stroke rate, hand placement in the water, etc.). He says I look fairly good in the water- not great, but not horrible. He says I have everything I need and the things I don’t have I understand why I don’t have them and what needs to be done EXCEPT my breathing/endurance. I can’t seem to get that down. I can swim a 25 pretty easy. Half way back I start to fall apart and by the end of one length I am usually gasping for air. We both believe it to be related to breathing. I have done quite a few drills to help with breathing and they seem to go fine. I can do bobs all day long. Even when I use the FINIS swim snorkel I run out of air by the end of 200 yds. Drives me nuts that I can run a 3:30 marathon and can’t swim for 5 minutes straight!!! **HELP ME! **What can I do? Lay it on me. Help me overcome this. I want to so bad I can taste it. I am so frustrated I could crack. Maybe someone here can give me some wisdom. I’m desperate.

chris

2

This may sound very simplistic. If you were not getting any propulsion from your kick before, every time you move your legs you go backwards. Put on a pair of fins and develop some endurance in your legs for swimming by kicking. I get people in my classes all the time who say exactly the same thing, “I can run a marathon and cannot move in the water.” It is all sport specific. Keep your legs fairly straight while kicking on your stomach and without a board, on your back. AS your legs start to work, our arms will have an easier time of it.
DougStern

3

Are you exhaling completely while you swim.

If you are taking a bunch of half breaths it will feel like you are not getting enough air. It’s not that you aren’t getting enough air, it’s that you aren’t getting rid of the CO2.

Try swimming with a pull bouy, can you exhale completely and be relaxed doing it?

My thoughts

jaretj

4

Following what Doug Stern said about your kick moving you backward…
…if you used a pull buoy (which would eliminate the kick dragging you back), could you finish a lap or two without becoming breathless?

What do you mean by “halfway back I start to fall apart” - do you mean you’re out of breath, or you stroke technique slips?

I guess my only suggestion is to swim a 50, and finish it whether you’re breathless or not… then do it again… repeat :stuck_out_tongue:

5

Guys, thanks for the suggestions. As to Doug’s point–I have gotten beyond that stage. My coach says he wouldn’t change my kick. Also, I can swim with or without fins and still have the breathless problem. I agree that I may not be breathing correctly (inhale or exhale whichever?). Any suggestions for drills that may help that? And yes, I am doing 50’s and then repeating. HOW LONG though? How long before this starts to come together and I can get some yardage? I realize I am asking the impossible question. I am currently in the pool 45 min. a day, 5 days a week. That is alot of time to spend and not see results. I want to optimize that time and do sets that will get me more yardage/endurance. Repeat 50’s with 1 min. rest enough or do something different?

chris

6

do you know any other strokes? backstroke would get you some swim endurance, without the breathing under water thing.

you sound really frustrated. maybe take some time off and come back into it, relaxed and you’ll get it? the harder you work against the water, the harder it works back at you!

7

Like I said initially I spend zero time in the water as a kid. The only other stroke I know is drowning.

Wow, even my typing sounds frustrated? Yep, that is pretty close to the truth. I have never invested so much time, effort, money into something for so little return. I just can’t see stopping now. I am afraid if I did I would lose all I have which would leave me with less than nothing. Don’t think quitting is an option. Die trying? Yes! Quit? No.

8

How about swimming with the pull buoy, though? What the posters above are trying to figure out is less whether your kick is effective and more whether it is taxing you aerobically. What happens when you eliminate your kick altogether with the buoy? Does your breathing improve? If so, Doug’s suggestion will still be salient.

9

I didn’t mean quit for good! I mean take a few days off, and then try it again :slight_smile:

10

FWIW, I totally feel your pain! I spent a bit more than a year doing dus and just one tri, and then for some reason, got motivated or crazy and decided to do tris in '07, and three 1/2 IMs…

I, like you, never really spent much time swimming as a kid, so we both are in a hole (so to speak).

Also, I can so relate to pretty much everything you said - moving backwards, things falling apart on the way back, etc. It’s interesting that you are going thru the same problems I went thru like a few weeks ago.

If you don’t mind me asking, how long have you been working on your swimming? For me, about 1.5 months, anywhere from 1-4 times a week.

Based on what my master’s swim coach and regular swim coach have said, the moving backwards deal is “runner’s kick”. I’ve got it bad, though as time goes by and I concentrate on it, it’s gotten better - not great, but better.

Ditto with the falling apart deal. If I’m doing a 50, 100, 200, 300, etc. My form is great, then good, OK, poor, crappy, what I am doing, etc. I know what’s happening and supposedly that’s a good thing and I guess it is as when I first started I didn’t know what was going on / what I was doing wrong.

It just takes time. In today’s swim workout I realized I’ve got yet another problem (How does it go? Admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery…). I can’t swim slow…really slow. So, as I try to go any decent distance, I’m looking at a huge spike in HR and I’ll wear myself out). So, I’m going back to working on form more.

This may help - both coaches had me flip on my back, and stick a kickboard on my upper legs / knees and the key was to not break the surface with my knees / feet - so bascially keep my legs straight or straighter. Defintely the fins help…

Also, and this I guess is normal, but you’ll have a swim where things will start to come together - piece by piece. You’ll start to realize something happened and it has make some problem better or gone away. You may not be sure what or able to always reproduce it, but then the next time or the time after you will.

There are times when I wonder how I’m going to swim 1.2 miles or even an OLY distance, but I just will. You too. If it’s any consolation, I typically have a better swim after I get really frustated, so if you swam today and were frustrated, and your progress is like mine, you’d due a much better swim next time - seriously, don’t know why it goes like this but it’s as constant as gravity.

In any case, at least you know there’s someone else out there that’s suffering with you!

Hope this helps,
-Chris

11

I sometimes use the DeSoto 5mm Speedtubes to help my kick. They are kind of like a pull buoy. I am going to continue to work at my kick per your suggestions. Fins and vertical kicking should help with that. I can say that my kick has definetly improved from when I started this all 14 months ago.

chris

12

14 months - you are probably way ahead of me…so got any advice for me? :slight_smile:

Good luck though…

-Chris

13

You don’t lack endurance – your technique is just terrible. Swimming 1000y doesn’t take much endurance if your technique is even remotely decent.

I thought I held the record for futility, but I think you’ve topped me. I spent 5 months or so before I could swim a 100y nonstop without nearly drowning by the end. It was horrible, and the more I failed, the more I obsessed (and I’m still that way, only now it’s to swim at a 1:30 pace instead of 1:40). I’m just over 2 years into it now.

You’ve been patient enough. Time to man up. The interesting thing is that you mention breathlessness despite using the snorkel! That means you are not relaxed and/or swimming too damn hard.

Use the snorkel and kick 1000y, without fins, no board. Alternate 25s, one on your stomach, then on your right side, then left side with your arm extended a la TI skate drill. Build up to BIG yards. This is something you can do, and succeeding should boost your confidence. Once in awhile, toss on the fins for a break/reward.

Kick w/o the snorkel, face down. Pop your head up for air when needed. Press than chest down until your feet break the surface.

Swim your 50s, but no minute rest. Try more like :15. This will force you to go easy. R-E-L-A-X.

If you aren’t already, breathe every stroke on one side. I was breathing every 4 when I was starting, which was NOT enough air for ANY swimming over 50y.

Make sure you are fully exhaled underwater. Roll enough to breathe, just barely enough. If your lower eye doesn’t keep seeing underwater, that’s too far.

Swim some 25s with NO breaths. Just go.

These are some of the things I did that helped. One day it just worked enough to swim – slowly – as long as I wanted.

Good luck. But do the above and maybe you won’t need it. :slight_smile:

14

one more thing about exhaling - exhale smoothly and continuously until you turn to inhale. If you are exhaling too fast and then stopping, or holding too much air to clear your nose - the co2 builds up and you run out of breath quicker. You should be breathing out the entire time your head is down.

15

Yes, you have carbon dioxide buildup in your longs because you don’t exhale enough…it progresses as you go along until your remaining lung capacity is so small you have to stop…very common…when swimming, only focus on exhaling for a while, nothing else…take as much time as you need to fully empty your lungs and be very deliberate about it…since you did TI, your balance should be okay and you do know how to get to the sweet spot and breathe.

16

a couple posts hinting but no-one’s come out & said it straight…from the info you’ve shared (particulalry the snorkel thing) it almost sounds like you have some anxiety issues holding you back here dude. are you really that comfortable in the water? an inability to complete 50 may suggest otherwise. it also suggests (no, confirms) that your technique isn’t quite as good as you &/or your coach may think. not flaming you but perhaps you just need to spend some more time in the water…but forget swimming freestyle for awhile - try some other strokes, and have some fun like snorkelling, scuba diving, play somersaults with your kids, even surfing or bodyboarding to build that comfort level in the water. i could be completely wrong of course, but you did say you were desperate :slight_smile: it will come, but like any technique sport it takes time…

17

Doug,

Where do you teach classes at and how much do you charge?

18

I went through the same thing this year. In June, I could only swim 25 meters. I did a few tri’s swimming freestyle for 50 meters, then on my back the rest of way. It took until October for me to “get it”. Here is what happened. I was talking to a guy at the pool and venting my frustration. He said that he swims 1200 meters every Saturday morning and has for years. He told me it takes him 300 meters before he can relax and get in a rhythm. That day I forced myself to keep going (keep in mind, I couldn’t go for more than 100 at a time). I actually ended up swimming 1000 meters. I got into such a groove that I didn’t want to stop. It still happens to me all the time. On my warm-up, I will feel really sluggish and out of breath after 50-100 meters. Eventually I will get in the groove (which is really just getting myself to relax). It seems the longer the interval I do, the better I feel. I am not a fast swimmer 1:55 average for 100’s during 200-500 intervals, but can keep them all at that pace. I know this sounds crazy, as a rookie myself this may be horrible advice, but it did help me get over the hump.

19

Interesting, no swimming as a kid. Which really means never PLAYED in the pool as a kid—right? Well, what do kids do when they play in the pool? They go under water, hold their breath, chase each other or dive for crap in the deep end.

Dude, you need to loosen up and JUST PLAY in the water. Try blowing off all this Total Immersion stuff or the constant mind numbing mantra about your stroke and endurance. Show up at the pool and just swim many 25’s under water. Push off at one end and TRY swimming by holding your breath to the other end----completely under water. Rest a bit and do it again. Have fun.

You are totally missing the part about have fun and being relaxed in the water. Be a kid again.

20

Guys, thanks alot for all the comments and suggestions. I do appreciate them. It helps to have a perspective. I plan to put alot of them into practice over the next few months. I will let you know how it progresses. Thanks again for the honest and frank replies.

chris