You’d think that since water is so dense, we’d be more concerned about front end gaps. But if you go to 1:10 of this video, this swimmer is tossing out a brick, with that huge lunge to breathe. Although not as severe at the moment, pretty much describes what I have been battling since I started swimming.
And from a coaching standpoint, other than an indication at the head (angle/lift) to gulp air and a crossover, this problem would go unidentified. But holy does this simple act set a chain of speed killing moves.
So how exactly do you pin your ear on your shoulder and breathe? Mystery to me. That was today’s pool session’s focus. Some thoughts:
The “priority” of breath (early and quick) is critical to pulling off 100% narrow shoulders, making the breath incidental to the stroke vs booking an appointment in the stroke cycle to gulp air.
Crossover is caused by (this) improper shoulder to spine angles and timing
Then you get the scissor kick and snaking effect
I had a chance to watch the Open water master Dr. Owen Brown this morning with his loping power style. This loping stroke is about getting the breath done “pre-loaded”, so it creates a loping effect. I wouldn’t say he swims narrow, but his head is barreling like a 10 pin down the lane, in for every bit of the pull left or right.
And for the ST “experts” : Using a foam chin block, besides improving my balance in the water, has illustrated this issue to me. the first swimmer in this video is also swimming in a very chin-tucked in position - throughout the stroke.
The gold standard (to me) for lane crushing, head steady, narrow shoulders stroke to me is Swim-smooth’s Jono Van Hazel. Unbelievable precision there.
And from a coaching standpoint, other than an indication at the head (angle/lift) to gulp air and a crossover, this problem would go unidentified. But holy does this simple act set a chain of speed killing moves.
This is the most common error I see. We teach it using timing, that your hand needs to pull at the same point relative to your recovering hand whether you are breathing or not. If you pull your front hand as your recovering hand passes you head, it needs to happen on both sides evenly. If you pull when your recovering hand touches water, then it needs to happen whether you are breathing or not. I most often have people do catch up and then modified catch up, having them get to the point that they can swim modified catch up style basically forever.
For a few swimmers for whom that won’t work, I still use the drill but their normal swim stroke won’t be modified catch up style.
Rather than saying that the arm is separating from the cheek, I’d say that the swimmer is pushing down to lift his head, two ways to describe the same thing.
modified catch up drill is catch up except that you keep your hand out front until your recovering hand touches the water rather than waiting until the hands are even.
I shot some video off the dock at lunch, then compared those fly-bys to clips from summer last year. I think you’ll agree the difference is apparent. (After fluttering around for a couple of years…) Use of the chin block has set my overall body position, and today I closed the gap by modification of breath timing. The fact that my feet are visible is a revelation. Still over-rotating the head by 10 degrees or so, but the water is cold so hard to judge. I think with a bit more to adjust to the new timing and then amp things up, in terms of turning a bigger gear upfront.
Do you recommend trying to hold that type of stroke even when racing? Or would one lose too much momentum that way?
Well, let me say this. This problem is definitely the most intractable one I see. It is very difficult to fix.
I say that to mention this, it will be a LONG time before you can execute proper swim timing without thinking about it. I have people who are still fighting it years after first being able to do it properly. For those people, swimming modified catch up style will help them hold proper form for their race and ends up being faster. Maybe that will be you as well.
And also realize that stroke timing and stroke rate are not necessarily linked. You can swim windmill style at 80 strokes per minutes and you can swim complete catch up style at 80 strokes per minute, you can swim windmill style at 50 strokes per minutes and catchup style at 50 strokes per minute. However, MOST of the time if you train your moderate sets doing modified catch up style, you will naturally switch to a more “regular” style when you speed up for racing, that has been shown a few different times by different studies - when a given swimmer goes slower he has more catchup.
So, in the end, until you can consistently demonstrate control of your leading hand when breathing i.e. it is doing what you want it to do rather than plunging toward the bottom; then I do suggest doing modified catch up when racing.
But the clock is arbiter, once you’ve had a few weeks of trying the drill, do a 500 both ways and see which is faster. If it’s faster to stay with the modified catch up style, then do that on race day. If it’s not, well then don’t
Much appreciated Kevin, thanks. I’ll give that drill article of yours a read. Tried the “arm by your cheek” one this morning – and felt like I might drown. I’ve got some work to do, for sure. My last swim clinic, I was told I drop my right elbow… but even when I fixed it, I still felt like I was “bobbing” a little rather than propelling myself straight forward. This sheds some light on what could be my bigger problem.
. Tried the “arm by your cheek” one this morning – and felt like I might drown. I’ve got some work to do, for sure. My last swim clinic, I was told I drop my right elbow… but even when I fixed it, I still felt like I was “bobbing” a little rather than propelling myself straight forward. This sheds some light on what could be my bigger problem.
When I first hit the pool 3 years ago, one of our coaches motioned to me to roll my ear to my shoulder when doing a one arm drill. I was like he can’t seriously mean that, I gulp nothing but water
But there are a couple of things that can make shoulder to ear (or close) happen. 1. body angle, which can be corrected by one or two pull buoys. To get the top of head down, you need to lift the tail of spine up.
level the head. - This is where my chin block stepped in and force-corrected my head & body position, and allowed me to keep form, Level head actually raises your mouth.
the final piece in the puzzle is the timing of the breath, which is hard to accomplish because it’s “early” and fast. I am thinking more fly-ish. Anyway early otherwise you’ll encounter sinking or lower attitude zone of the stroke. Early just doesn’t feel right initially and to be fast, well you need proper breathing something that may take years to develop.
But closely watching Owen on Monday I realized how early he makes the move air and the stroke is therefore started head first on both sides.
The thing is that you don’t need to be there tomorrow, next week or next month. Just that you are aware of where you need to be driving toward when you do hit the water.
You don’t have to entirely move your shoulder to your ear. You can also move your ear to your shoulder somewhat and meet in the middle. Anything to close that gap helps.
I get neckburn from wetsuits and swimskins after racing because I keep my shoulders pinned super close to my neck. It definitely speeds you up.
I have this exact same problem and am having a really hard time fixing it. I lift my head to far, breathe too late, crossover and scissor kick. I do it all, unfortunately. One thing I did try that seemed to help was focusing on breathing very early and trying to almost look behind me when I roll to breathe. That seemed to keep my head down a little better.
I actually discourage looking back, I teach people to breathe at 2 o clock rather than 4, this helps keep them long in the water. Looking behind you as you breathe, is apt to make you cross over even worse, as you turn to beathe you look back and your extended arm sweeps across out in front of you.
There are several ways to get at it.
For people who really don’t get it I do two things. One is that I’ll have them do what I call the FS kick drill A https://sites.google.com/site/kpjoubert2/freestylekickingdrills2
while holding a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell in their extended hand. Also will do stick drill with a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell. Those get you accustomed to holding your arm up as you breathe rather than leaning on it.
Another thing is to make sure you have one eye in and one eye out when breathing.
The author of this thread mentioned he has done better when he started breathing with a flat head. That is something that gets overlooked, when you turn to breathe, your head should be flat, if we lay a carpenter’s level on the side of your head as you breathe, it should be flat. That will also help you get on eye in and one eye out when you breathe.
My findings as well. I have tried this & it doesn’t work. It doesn’t make that “radical” and fundamental stroke altering head adjustment that is required.
There are several ways to get at it.
For people who really don’t get it I do two things. One is that I’ll have them do what I call the FS kick drill A https://sites.google.com/...estylekickingdrills2
while holding a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell in their extended hand. Also will do stick drill with a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell.
>>> Wait a sec, using weight at the front. Will have to try that. In fact a weight on the head is also something you could try (historical sarcasm)
Another thing is to make sure you have one eye in and one eye out when breathing. >>> Problem with 1 in 1 out, while a superb indicator of waterline, it is not a “technique” movement key imo. And also hard to achieve if the breath is mis-timed or under duress.
The author of this thread mentioned he has done better when he started breathing with a flat head. >>> I have been called that. Chin up, top of head driving in. The FS “A” drill posted is executed very well & precisely. How many people when they see that, would understand the nuances vs “a guy in the pool flutter kicking along”? Also note the differences in waterline. As soon as you take a breath your head and body sinks then rebounds. That is why there is “room to breathe” if the breath is captured in the mS window before the body sinks.
Also let’s talk posture. If you have forward head and neck syndrome, your head is going to be riding lower in the water than someone with good posture, like a young kid. A forward head/neck means you have lost ~ 1 inch? of waterline in which to breathe. Pulling the chin in and head back to align the spine helps a lot! Not only does this reduce drag, it aligns the spine and promotes better airway access as well. (see youtube for exercises). I spent quite a bit of time over the winter improving posture.
Even so, in the pool I had to use external devices that held my head or gave feedback for my head to make these changes stick. Blocking the chin was by far most effective.
I encounter this all the time coaching water-skiing. To change someone’s posture on the ski you practically have to strap them to a 2x4. They ski the way they have always habitually skied. Very rare that “radical style surgery” as I call it, can be implemented. I think it’s the same thing in this case.
For people who really don’t get it I do two things. One is that I’ll have them do what I call the FS kick drill A https://sites.google.com/...estylekickingdrills2
while holding a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell in their extended hand. Also will do stick drill with a 3 to 5 pound dumbbell. Those get you accustomed to holding your arm up as you breathe rather than leaning on it.
I tried a 5 lb hand dumbbell and seriously it drove me to the bottom. I’d start out and got about 2-3 feet under in a few seconds, with no chance to surface to breahe. so absolutely impossible for me use a 5lb. Maybe 1-2 lbs at most.
Disagree on your “one in/one out” (alligator eye) breathing not being a technique move…I think it’s a critical step when teaching both kids & adults proper form. It’s likely to keep head straight (depending on what you tell them to look at), level and low. Doing anything else to learn that level-head part (small weight or stick in hand notwithstanding), I see so many people lift their heads, roll their heads too far or look back to be “sneaky” when that’s counter-intuitive to what you’re trying to accomplish.
3-5lb weight would drown me, too. MAYBE a 1lb…but I also loathe the stick drill (for my own self) because it widens my pull. I think either of those things, a tiny weight or the stick, would help increase the awareness dramatically of most people for that leading hand. I would worry a bit about telling some to put their head/face to arm as they’ll wind up tilting their head down, but it takes all sorts of “tricks” to get through to people…so I’m sure it helps some.
99% of my swimming is done breathing like that, OWS or pool. I also have a “modified catch-up” stroke as Kevin describes about 99% of the time. Regardless of under duress or in chop/waves, if you don’t hold technique to the best of ability you’re slowing down.
Yesterday I took some swim video and felt I needed to clean up my arms and front. So went back to the catch-up stick drill. Rather than use the floaty wood sticks at the pool I used this - a 1lb dowel of dense plastic from our shop.
It was really good. Gave me something I had to support, because it sinks.Iit was big so there was drag to push against and I knew exactly where my arm was at all times, stabilizing the front of the stroke. Did the trick, ironed some old habits that were creeping back in.
For some reason I found that by exhaling into my reaching armpit (shoulder pinned to face) kept my breathing early and low. This is because as soon as shoulder started the pull, that was the cue to breathe.
Now that I rebooted an old thread I do recall the day I tried that 5lb dumbbell - it was impossible to use.
I’m back looking at this topic again (just did a search for loping stroke).
I was in Kits pool busting up and down using fins, and thought I’m pushing a lot of water up front.
So I decided to go with my head landing on my upper/extended arm as I turned to breathe. This closes that gap.
Doing that action then put me into a loping-type stroke. With the lope I got a consistent, authoritative turnover.
End result it felt like a lot of free speed and fast! Breathing is a bit more of a challenge as I am firmly one google under with it.
PS: A few years ago I crashed a Vancouver Dolphins swim practice and the French coach was drilling us to have our heads always in contact with one of the upper arms. Even to have the head dropped below the arms for maximum effect. Most of the group couldn’t do much of it.
