Usually I touch the end of the lane and push but I lose a lot of speed with no flip turn… I just watched some videos on how to do a flip turn, looks simple enough… Do I need to blow out if my nose to prevent water coming up or is that not necessary?
If you flip turn without blowing air out of your nose, you will get water up your nose
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Exhale very gently while you turn, that will keep water from going up your nose.
Awesome. Thx! Will try in tmr workout.
Just something to ponder and focus on in your flip turn development. They can be faster or they can be slower. The way most triathletes do them they are the same or slower than a good compact open turn plus the flip turn has the additional negative of slight hypoxic moments that really build up on a longer set vs an open turn of grabbing a sip of air. My not best racy turns are the exact same time as a few guys open turns I know.
If you are going to take on the added effort of doing the flip turn just make the most of it and learn how to do them powerfully and quickly! I think a lot of people quit too soon after undertaking flip turns b/c they think it’s like buying an aero helmet and they get a ‘free’ second every turn. As you will find out there is a cost to them up front both with less O2(longer under water plus exhaling especially if you work the break out) and some leg work if you are pushing off hard, but at some point it’s your new normal. Stick with it!
As others have said - there is a learning curve.
I see some newer flippers come to almost a complete stop, tuck themselves into a ball and wave their arms around to slowly rotate themselves somewhere between 150-200 degrees, then push off and up to immediately grab a breath of air / make a wave. Don’t be that one.
It should be more of a jack-knife action. As you approach the wall, follow your last stroke and bend at the waist so your head and arm are pointing back down the lane. This should help pull your legs over, while you ‘cock’ them with a 30’-45’ bend ideal for your pushoff ( i usually give a little flip-kick that helps elevate them just as I reach under). With your feet on the wall (really as they touch) - lock your arms into a streamline, tuck your chin and push. This is the fastest you will be moving all lap - so try to relax and hold it for a second or two. My first breath is almost always past the flags, so about 5M down the pool…
I have two different turns - If I have a 1/2 lane I it is as close as I can come to 180 degrees, my head comes up in the bubbles from my last lap. In Masters / Circle swim, it is more like 170-160’ where I’m aiming for the other side of the lane. I also aim that turn much deeper so I go back and under any following/gaining swimmers in my lane.
Yes, blow air out of your nose and/or mouth the whole turn. Also, use your hands, pushing up from your waist to your head to help you flip around quicker.
Get in the pool and relax. Swim in a deep pool if you have one local. And simply practice the flip turn. Below is a link to a good tutorial on how to train for flip turns. But remember… If your swimming in a triathlon most courses are open water. There are no flip turns in the open water unless your doing something wrong. Or… maybe I’m doing it wrong…
https://techsmithstorage.blob.core.windows.net/uploads/g000100kKXb4Lwid66K4zO5LJRwX4/Feb122015-109PM-4dX13F.mp4
Say thanks to boost swimming for their excellent videos.
For breathing… Simply relax… You have all the time in the world… If your running out of air slow down. Training should be fun too, not every training session needs to be a race. If you train relaxed, your HR will be lower, you’ll burn fat instead of carbs, and you’ll feel like training again tomorrow. Work to build the amount of time you can swim then begin to build speed. If you can’t swim 4k then work on it but slow down. Save racing for race day. Train on training days.
ShortCurly
Got excited do I went to the pool to try it out. After practicing 15 mins I tried a few real laps. Oh man did I struggle to breath after the push off. I definitely see there’s extra speed per lap if I get the timing really good but the lack of air really kills it lol. I also have a problem where after I flip and push off, I seem to be pushing down rather than horizontal. I guess this has to do with my orientation. More practice tomorrow!
**Got excited do I went to the pool to try it out. **After practicing 15 mins I tried a few real laps. Oh man did I struggle to breath after the push off. I definitely see there’s extra speed per lap if I get the timing really good but the lack of air really kills it lol. I also have a problem where after I flip and push off, I seem to be pushing down rather than horizontal. I guess this has to do with my orientation. More practice tomorrow!
125 - Very cool that you got excited enough to make a special trip to the pool to start working on your flip turns. If only we could get all tri geeks that excited about swimming…
Regarding the lack of air, you’ll get used to it after a few months or so. As someone else posted, think of it as kind of a jackknife maneuver: you just need to roll your legs over, no need for a complete flip per se. Also, no need to throw the legs 4 ft out of the water and make a big splash like some do; that just makes for a slower turn and less D on the push-off. Watch the good swimmers do their flip turns and imitate them. I’ve been imitating better swimmers almost all my life and think it is really the best way to learn, if you are a “visual learner”.
If you have no checked out The Race Club they have a fantastic series on fast turns with great vids. This is something I have to constantly pay attention to I have a tendency to get sloppy and just like everything else with swimming details matter, but DANG do they make a dif!
There is no learning curve…I watched a couple youtube videos, then went to the pool and practiced doing summer salts facing the wall. It took maybe 15 minutes. Don’t over think it and you will be fine!
Usually I touch the end of the lane and push but I lose a lot of speed with no flip turn… I just watched some videos on how to do a flip turn, looks simple enough… Do I need to blow out if my nose to prevent water coming up or is that not necessary?
Asking that question leads me to believe you’ve not tried it yet. Kind of self-evident.
It’s taken me a LONG to get my flips somewhat down. I’m talking about the whole process: timing strokes into the wall, good flip, correct position against the wall, straight push with streamline (not pushing down to the bottom of the pool or into the other lane! haha). That’s not easy to link all of that together and get all of that down in a short amount of time. At least it wasn’t for me.
I watched a lot of videos, got tips here and set aside specific time to practice at the pool as part of my workout.
It’s paid off dramatically. On short intervals, especially when I’m not tired, I think I might be able to fool someone into thinking I’m a “real” swimmer by looking at my form on the flip. Once they get out the watch and see how slow i’m swimming the fraud will be revealed, but I’m working on that too.
There are many different benefits to flips vs. open turns in my opinion. I’d say #1 would just be a better “feel” for the water.
My biggest hurdle was being out of breath. That’s still something i’m trying to improve.
My biggest hurdle was being out of breath. That’s still something i’m trying to improve.
I’ve found this is really an interesting animal for me. I thought going from threshold training and longer stuff like 1-2-300’s down to sprint focus of 25/75/125 maybe is a longer one might be some kind of gravy coming my way. Turns out the added intensity and longer streamline/breakout eats up whatever fitness component I might have had coming down from doing more consecutive turns with threshold training. Once I learned how to dolphin kick well enough to where it’s faster to use it off the walls I had a whole new level of fitness to work on…and am still playing catch up with every day. It never ends the new discoveries!
It’s taken me a LONG to get my flips somewhat down.
It’s paid off dramatically. On short intervals, especially when I’m not tired, I think I might be able to fool someone into thinking I’m a “real” swimmer by looking at my form on the flip. Once they get out the watch and see how slow i’m swimming the fraud will be revealed, but I’m working on that too.
There are many different benefits to flips vs. open turns in my opinion. I’d say #1 would just be a better “feel” for the water.
You say it’s paid off “dramatically” but the only payoff you mention is looking better to others. What is that improved “feel” for the water doing for you if it’s not making you faster?
It’s taken me a LONG to get my flips somewhat down.
It’s paid off dramatically. On short intervals, especially when I’m not tired, I think I might be able to fool someone into thinking I’m a “real” swimmer by looking at my form on the flip. Once they get out the watch and see how slow i’m swimming the fraud will be revealed, but I’m working on that too.
There are many different benefits to flips vs. open turns in my opinion. I’d say #1 would just be a better “feel” for the water.
You say it’s paid off “dramatically” but the only payoff you mention is looking better to others. What is that improved “feel” for the water doing for you if it’s not making you faster?
I did not mention it in the post but I am for sure faster using a good flip vs. open turn. I believe that increased “feel” improves qualities that all lead to more efficient and ultimately faster swimming. That’s how I see it. The navy seals say smooth is fast. They didn’t invent that saying but that’s a focus their training with whatever they are doing, swimming or reloading a magazine on an AR.
That and the fact that 100% of swimmers on swim teams from kids to Olympians do the flip vs. open turn is evidence enough for me.
It’s taken me a LONG to get my flips somewhat down.
It’s paid off dramatically. On short intervals, especially when I’m not tired, I think I might be able to fool someone into thinking I’m a “real” swimmer by looking at my form on the flip. Once they get out the watch and see how slow i’m swimming the fraud will be revealed, but I’m working on that too.
There are many different benefits to flips vs. open turns in my opinion. I’d say #1 would just be a better “feel” for the water.
You say it’s paid off “dramatically” but the only payoff you mention is looking better to others. What is that improved “feel” for the water doing for you if it’s not making you faster?
Also, I would not totally discount the aesthetic quality of any sport. Some guys ski down a mountain and look like s#it doing it. Others can do it with grace and style. The grace and style element is PART the enjoyment of any sport I do. Clearly not for everyone, but it’s important to me. I also believe that performance and grace/style/fluidity go hand and hand. Exhibit A: Roger Federer. Exhibit B: Michael Jordan. etc.
If you like doing them, by all means continue. If there is a visceral element of them that you enjoy, that alone with worth it ( I prefer mechanical shifting to electronic for the same reason). And for speed in pool turning, they can’t be beat. Certainly your speed and skill will continue improve.
I just didn’t understand what you meant by “paid off dramatically”. To me that would have to be in time. Whatever the Navy Seals tell me, my only way to measure “fast” is the clock
Got excited do I went to the pool to try it out. After practicing 15 mins I tried a few real laps. Oh man did I struggle to breath after the push off. I definitely see there’s extra speed per lap if I get the timing really good but the lack of air really kills it lol. I also have a problem where after I flip and push off, I seem to be pushing down rather than horizontal. I guess this has to do with my orientation. More practice tomorrow!
Let your legs drop down further after your flip, aim for the + or whatever marking you have on the side of the pool, just let the legs rotate a little more. Your legs are hitting up high on the wall and when you push off your trajectory is aimed toward the bottom, thus, you go down instead of horizontal.