I was watching Phelps in the 400m IM and noted his long smooth stroke. Then I was watching the women and noticed how much higher their stroke rates seemed to be. Typically the women are 6-12 inches shorter than the top male swimmers, so it would only make sense that given their shorter “reach” they would complete each stroke quicker requiring a faster stroke rate to go at their top sustained speed.
I know there is lot of talk in triathlon circles about increasing your glide and slowing down your stroke rate, but it seems to me that few swim coaches get us to work on our stroke rate. I was talking to an elite ITU World Cup triathlete a few weeks ago and she said that glide is bogus especially in open water. Its all about stroke rate and propulsion. The glide will automatically take care of itself. I suppose at a certain skill level, this is indeed true (once you have gotten steamlined and have a good glide).
Would the stroke rate vs glide experts please care to comment. If we are lucky, we’ll get Oracle telling us all about stroke rate (stomping) and Frank Day telling us all about gliding (finesse, aka lifting on the bike…)
You’re talking about swim advice for different levels of racing. For non-swimmer ag’ers you should emphasize long, smooth strokes, they’re more efficient. If you’re talking about ITU WC racing, swim strokes that are efective for open-water, wetsuit swimming are somewhat different. That is why sometimes “fast” swimmers on the pool are not always fast swimmers in open water and vice-versa.
For example, I coached an athlete which had a pool 1500m time of ROUND 19:45, which is really slow for elite level. However, he would exit the water in the front group in ITU WC/International races. That was because both his stroke mechanics and open water skills made him an excellent open water swimmer.
Smartasscoach, so should I be trying to increase my stoke rate in openwater. I’m only 5’6" 140 lbs. Speed = stoke ratexdistance per stroke, and concentrating on the latter seems to have only made me slower, especially in open water. Years ago, I swam 54 in Roth and 56 in Penticton. Granted that was when I was swimming 12-20000 m per week. Now I good week is only two swims of 2000 m each, and my times have dropped correspondingly to the 30-35 min range in half Ironmans and 62/63 min in full Ironmans. I think I’m going to go back to high stroke rate (you also get to breath more too).
Anyway, it’s tough to tell you what you should do without ever seeing you swim. High stroke rates work if you have a good high elbow when pulling, otherwise it will be more inneficient. And because that’s the number one fault in propulsion, I’m guessing you should stick to long, gliding, efficient swimming.
…thanks. If I start from a baseline of 4K swimming, 300K biking and 60K running per week and have to choose between adding 16K of swimming to get to 20K (5 hours, which equates to 8 hour real time if I include commute to the pool), I’d rather add 250K of extra biking which I can do from my front door
My personal view is that your average age groupers are better off with higher stroke rates, with the caveat that they not significantly elevate their heart rate. I find that high stroke rates lead to high heart rates for me, which means I’m more likely to have less for the bike. My current stroke rate is 16 strokes per 25 yards, which is already fairly high.
I would add that TI teaches longer strokes and lower stroke rates because most triathletes are well below your skill level. You are obviously in the top 5% or less of triathlete swimmers. For the BEGINNING triathlete TI is a gold mine and the place to start. You can always slowly build stroke rate.
Another point is ROLLING. For open water swimming in a wet suit, I question whether roll is necessary or propulsive. Life guard style swimming, with a wide stroke and fast turnover might actually be the most effective approach for the MOP swimmer. (I’m not saying you, but it might work for you.) That approach is also shoulder friendly because unless you really turn your hand a lot you can avoid impingement.
Also, I was watching the strokes of the top guys in the prelims and finals of the Olympics and they all have a different stroke but they all LOPE. Notice they roll slightly more on one side and pull harder on one side. This is very obvious if you check the videos online of actual swimming performances. And, wasn’t that Neethling with the straight arms? That approach to free style-a la Janet Evans and many others-is now actually being taught to age groupers by a small number of coaches. Too wierd, but whatever WORKS.
* Stroke rate correlation positively with the depth (measured from the front of the body to the back), or "thickness" of the athlete as measured at the chest and hips. It also was negatively correlated with the cross-sectional area (thickness x width) of the athlete as measured at the chest. Thicker and wider swimmers tend to swim with a higher SR.
* Stroke rate was negatively correlated with the height of the athlete and the length of his limbs. This means the taller the athlete and the longer his limbs, the lower the SR tends to be.
* Stroke length was correlated positively with height and length variables. The taller the athlete, the longer the SL tends to be.
* Stroke length showed a negative correlation with depth (thickness) and width of the athlete. Thicker and wider athletes tend to swim with a shorter SL.
* The factors that had the greatest impact on SR were the length of the limbs, followed by thickness and width.
* The factors impacting SL the most were athlete width, followed by limb length.
Extrapolating from the torso thickness point, it seems to suggest that women should swim with higher stroke rates, and shorter stroke lengths than men.
The elite men like Thorpe also tend to rely more on the kick for propulsion than the women do. Keeping a six beat kick all the way through the stroke keeps your rate of overall propulsuion constant even when you’re gliding (not pulling) with the arms.
I’m now wishing I would have TIVOed the women’s 400. Laure Manaudou’s a weak 2 beat kicker, and it would havee been interesting to break down her arm action a bit more.
Thanks folks…I guess I am “short and thick” and the short stoke length with high stroke rate is what worked best for me in the past. I also used to use straight arm. In the past 4 years I have been trying to go long stroke length, slower stroke length and bent arm and I’m slower. Of course as Smartasscoach suggested, perhaps all I need is to go back to swimming 20K per week and the speed will come back
Someone posted a recent study somewhere that supposedly demonstrates that long strokes are NOT more propulsive. I was taught to consciously “flip” my hand at the end of the stroke (I think Maglischo had this in his FIRST book), but this new research suggests that stopping at the hip is fine and reaching out (i.e., hyper-extending the shoulder) is also not necessary.
Another correlation I read years ago was that arm strength is highly correlated with free style speed.
