The CNW Marketing Research, Inc.’s 2007 “Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles
From Concept to Disposal” caught the interest of the media and the public with its claim that a
Hummer H3 SUV has a lower life-cycle energy cost than a Toyota Prius hybrid. Closer
inspection suggests that the report’s conclusions rely on faulty methods of analysis, untenable
assumptions, selective use and presentation of data, and a complete lack of peer review. Even the
most cursory look reveals serious biases and flaws: the average Hummer H1 is assumed to travel
379,000 miles and last for 35 years, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000
miles over less than 12 years. These selective and unsupported assumptions distort the final
results. A quick re-analysis with peer-reviewed data leads to completely opposite conclusions:
the life-cycle energy requirements of hybrids and smaller cars are far lower than Hummers and
other large SUVs. CNW should either release its full report, including methods, assumptions,
and data, or the public should ignore its conclusions. Unfortunately, “Dust to Dust” has already
distorted the public debate.
anyone with a bit of common sense would not buy the pile of crap presented in the initial report anyway…now indeed, the problem with common sense is that it’s not that common…
I’m not defending the report, and I have no idea how long the average Prius lasts. But if they are talking about a diesel Hummer, then the lifespan is reasonable. I have a cummins dodge diesel, and I believe it average life span is about 350,000m. I have friends that have almost a 1/2 million miles on their dodges…And I get twice the mileage of the comprable gas truck, but I have no idea about the Hummer mileage…
I’m not so concerned about the engine as much as everything else. Ive yet to see a car built past 1970 that didn’t have some major component wear that needed replacement after 150K normal driving miles, not highway miles. The components, A-Arms, mounts, etc etc are lighter, flimsier and aren’t really designed for “eternal” use like older vehicles were.
400K I’d say would be “Dream team” mileage while the 109K is closer to average useage. Some of the work vehicles are built better, which is reflected in the price, but still end up needing some major repairs sooner or later, usually way before 350-400K.
“Some of the work vehicles are built better, which is reflected in the price, but still end up needing some major repairs sooner or later, usually way before 350-400K.”
Well, that’s why they call it “life cycle.” Major repairs and upgrades still exist within the life of a vehicle.
I have no doubt that some things will wear out before my 1/2 million miles, but my manual transmission and the cummins motor, along with the body of course, should make the journey. I think the heavy duty trucks are still built with longevity in mind, and I wouldn’t be suprised if the Hummer was built the same. I mean it is one heavy mofo, something has to be beefed up, doesn’t it??? I expect to replace brakes, tires, possibly an altenartor, a radiator, and maybe a fuel pump… But most of the truck should make it with the motor. I really think that there is’nt too much flimsy on a Hummer, but maybe I’m wrong. And here again, I’m talking diesel, not gas… Just about every diesel vehicle I’ve ever heard of will way outlast it’s gas counterpart. There was a mercedes a while back that went over a million miles, no rebuilds, and commercial big rigs routinely get a 1/2 million miles. And I see a lot of the old jeeps that the army used before Hummers,from the 40’s and 50’s still around. Like you said, they just built them to last in those days…
Someone here must own a Hummer, maybe they just don’t want to admit it…
I think that slowguy got it right here, the H1 is the military version, and the H3 is acompletely different car…I just went back and reread the first paragraph of this article, and I have to now call bullshit on it. Once again I’m not defending one side or the other, but they begin by talking about the H3 in the comparison, and in the next couple sentances they use the H1 as the example. If they are completely different cars, and not really comparable(H3 and H1), then I call bullshit on this whole article. And how many different models of Prius are there?? More than one?? Too bad this it is just another political agenda paper, I would really like to know what the cradel to grave comparisons are…
I’m just going on my experience with the automotive market here. The Hummer, either the H1 and especially the H3 are no longer “military” vehicles. They are high production “luxury” vehicles. With that in mind the designers aren’t designing them to be used as offroad or even heavy work vehicles. They’re looking at material cost vs strength vs production time vs profit etc. that being said I’d HOPE that they are beefier than the Prius but they are designed that way because they weigh more not because the designers are trying to get longevity out of them. In the end they are probably designed with some sort of life cycle in mind and if the rest of the industry, which the Hummer is now part of, is any indication, it ain’t 400K miles.
You’ll always have cars that last a gagillion miles but you also have the same make and model taht pulls of teh lot and the front wheel breaks off.
Back in “the day” they didn’t do nearly the testing, materials weren’t quit the factor they are today and gas mileage was not even on the radar so thus weight was no issue. Parts were made stout, rebuildable and repairable. Today pretty much everything is non repairable and only replaceable.
For the most part “Work Duty” vehicles go thru a more rigorous duty cycle testing and are expected to hold up to a more rigorous impact. I’m talking your typical truck but real work duty trucks. Your typical S-10 buy off the lot truck is not built to much different standard than cars.
I honestly don’t know enough about Hummers to say that the study is complete BS, but I know enough about vehicles in general to say that the premis of the study, that big gas guzzling SUV’s and trucks are better for the environment than other vehicles, is BS. On average your typical SUV simply doesn’t last much longer than a comparable car. There is some appearance that this is not true because your typical SUV is of a slightly better quality than your typical sub compact economy car. But as you stated there are upper end cars that do at least 400K miles sometimes more.
We also have a host of “unknowns” here as well. The big one I can think of is that someone who goes out and pays 15-20K for a cheap driver econo box is likely not caring for that care to the extent that the guy who goes out and buys the 70K+ Hummer to impress the neighbors. The econo box WILL miss oil changes, will get parked in the wrong spots, will suffer in the area of general maintenances. The Hummer will likely be pampered, maintained and cared for to a much higher degree.
Curious why they don’t compare against the actual vehicle that the H2, and H3 are derived from. H2 is a suburban chassis and motor. H3 is a trail blazer. They just put different skin on them and call it something else along with a few bells and whistles.
Interesting, didn’t know that was the case and doubt whole heartedly that the average life cycle of either the suburban or the Blazer is anywhere near half of 400K.
Curious why they don’t compare against the actual vehicle that the H2, and H3 are derived from. H2 is a suburban chassis and motor. H3 is a trail blazer. They just put different skin on them and call it something else along with a few bells and whistles.
That’s right. A different skin and a crapload of pointless plastic. The H1, on the other hand, was an extrordinarily capable 4X4; a true badass whose heritage was rather thinly disguised.
The Pacific Institute report isn’t making the decisions as to which vehicles are being compared, just rebutting the various CNW reports.
CNW revised its report at least once and there are different vehicles used in comparisons abroad as well.
They have focused on the H2, H3, and Jeep Wrangler. The Pacific Institute is just rebutting the reasoning used in comparisons involving the H2, H3, etc. It’s not because they can’t keep the vehicles straight or make up their minds. It’s the fault of the source of the original reports.