Supplement question

Triathlon Forum
1

Hello,

I’m a triatlete, middle to long distance. 36 year old male. I do eat meat. Healty lifestyle, 2-4x per month I drink alcohol and eat cheat meals.
I train +/- 10-12 hours a weak + 6 hours work-home trip with the bike.

For the moment I’m taking the next supplements:

  • VIT D (+/- 3 per weak)
  • Omega 3 gels (+/- 5 per weak)
  • Fruits and greens shake (+/- 5 per weak)
  • Collageen (+/- 3 per weak)

What do you guys take as supplements ?
I’m thinking of taking some zink, magnesium, calcium, K2, B12.
But I’m afraid I’m over supplementing myself… any tips for a wonnabe semi-pro :slight_smile:

Thx in advance!
R

2

But I’m afraid I’m over supplementing myself…

You are. Just eat a good variety of healthy foods.

None of that crap is going to do anything except make you urine more valuable.

3

Eat some broccoli, brussel sprouts, asparagus, and carrots.

4

But I’m afraid I’m over supplementing myself…
You are. Just eat a good variety of healthy foods.

None of that crap is going to do anything except make you urine more valuable.

haha great response. He can just eat fish for his meat protein source and omega 3!

5

Comprehensive list of supplements worth taking for muscle/strength/power & body composition. Everything else probably isn’t worth your money or even your time in taking it.
Intra-workout carbs (during training) ( sugar Gatorade)Whey Protein (during or around training)Creatine (during or around training)Casein Protein (before bed)Caffeine (before training)
Advanced **Endurance **Supplementation

FYI… This is not a formal recommendation to anyone.

It was compiled for my wife.

It is the full list of anything worth spending money on as an endurance athlete, in my opinion. Bicarb left off because of complexity of supplementation. Cost was not taken into account when compiling the list.

The question I was asking when I performed the comprehensive lit review of virtually all available supplements was “will this make Michelle faster at either triathlon or cycling, in any reliable or ‘probably reliable’ way?” If the answer was “Yes” or at least “quite possibly” it made the list.

I purchased it all through bulksupplements.com via amazon. I would say there is either a very strong placebo effect of the combined power of all that stuff or it works pretty well, in my personal experience. Michelle wholeheartedly agrees and takes them religiously because of her perception of its effectiveness for performance enhancement.

Casein options:
Optimum NutritionDymatizeAscentWhey options:
Optimum NutritionDymatizeAscentCreatine:
Creatine from Bulk Supplements on Amazon (cheapest, best, easiest, all in one)

Endurance supps:
Beta Alanine, 1kg, Bulk Supplements via Amazon
Beet Root Powder 1kg, Bulk Supplements via Amazon
Citrulline Malate, Bulk Supplements via Amazon
Caffeine from Bulk Supps on Amazon is great. The cheaper the better. This one is cheaper as of last checking.

Creatine from Bulk Supplements on Amazon
Sodium Citrate

No affiliation to any of the above. I just have all the above stored in TextExpander :slight_smile:

With regard to your specific supps you currently take:
Vit D, fine. Maybe healthy. Great if you live in low light exposure area.Omega 3 gels, probably waste of money.Greens mixes can work great for veggie substitution especially in a time-crunch or for some daily efficiency. One tradeoff is that they tend to be much less filling than actual veggies, but if you’re not dealing with much hunger, then you’re probably good to go! If hunger increases, definitely increase veggie volume!Collagen probably doesn’t have an ideal amino acid profile to support body composition as well as whey protein or even soy protein. Definitely not ideal for meal replacement or use during a workout. As far as it’s benefits for other purposes (hair, nails… etc.), my jury is still out. If you’re going to use it, just count it toward your protein macros for the nearest meal, and maybe only do half your protein from any given meal as collagen. I don’t spend money on it.
Re: your other proposed supps:
Zinc: waste of moneyMagnesium: waste of money unless you need a laxative, in which case you should use Magnesium Citrate (no affiliation).Calcium, K2, B12… shoot just take a multi. Honestly, if you’re getting a fair bit of variety (lots of veggies), you probably don’t need a multi-vitamin. If your diet is occasionally like mine…somewhat one-dimensional and highly repetitive… then yes, a multi-vitamin is an acceptable, but still probably useless way to cover your bases. I’d go with the cheapest option. Walmart or Amazon brands or other generic low-dollar options are just fine. If you need anything specifically out of your multi-vitamin, then you should probably be taking that independently, rather than paying double or quadruple for a multi-vit that contains whatever special interest/need you might have. Spending more on multi-vits, and other supps, ironically, just as frequently makes them less useful than more useful, because some supp company got a wild hair to do things a little differently. Get the cheap stuff.
Hope that’s helpful!

6

Allrighty, thx for taking your time to make a big post about this.

I started to look at al these supplements cause I have often small injuries, inflamations. And I maybe thought I need some help from supplement to fight those bastards…

7

If inflammation is causing injury, training volume or sleep time needs to be adjusted. If inflammation-blunting is a goal, NSAIDs, and high-dose vit C are better than anything discussed so far. I am not a medical doctor. Don’t take NSAIDs outside of your physician’s recommendations.

There are tradeoffs to blunting inflammation. ie. reduced adaptation to training.

8

Hello,

I’m a triatlete, middle to long distance. 36 year old male. I do eat meat. Healty lifestyle, 2-4x per month I drink alcohol and eat cheat meals.
I train +/- 10-12 hours a weak + 6 hours work-home trip with the bike.

For the moment I’m taking the next supplements:

  • VIT D (+/- 3 per weak)
  • Omega 3 gels (+/- 5 per weak)
  • Fruits and greens shake (+/- 5 per weak)
  • Collageen (+/- 3 per weak)

What do you guys take as supplements ?
I’m thinking of taking some zink, magnesium, calcium, K2, B12.
But I’m afraid I’m over supplementing myself… any tips for a wonnabe semi-pro :slight_smile:

Thx in advance!
R

Let me make your life super easy. Eat a wide variety of foods with a focus on getting a lot of different colors of your veggies in. Eat more veggies and fruits than meat. Avoid processed foods in general. Everything in moderation, including moderation. Take a multi to cover your bases. That’s all you need. If you really want to get to the finer points on this stuff, my suggestion would be to engage a nutritionist and have some bloodwork done. I’ve used the core diet in the past (no affiliation, just something I’ve used) and I’ve appreciated their approach.

9

I always have concerns about Creatine use - particularly the anecdotal / coincidence between use in some countries with a rugby culture (particularly the Pacific Islands) and liver / kidney disease.

Can you expand on your knowledge about that risk ? (Real question - not trying to poke the hornets nest - but as a rugby fan I’m all too aware of the (at least) coincidences with high profile players.

10

Good question and honesty understood and appreciated. Thank you! I’ll stake my career on creatine not causing kidney and liver disease in otherwise healthy people. Likewise for high-protein diets.

If kidney pathology exists already, reducing protein and creatine consumption may be warranted, per recommendations of a nephrologist, not a regular PCP. I’m quoting a nephrologist client of mine, and amalgamating their statements with the scientific literature.

Few things are as well-researched as creatine, by the way.

Creatine does the following:
Increases muscular endurance for efforts lasting 5-60 seconds, maybe slightly longer.Increases muscular hydration (a good thing).Does NOT cause cramping (that’s internet hogwash).Causes a mild anabolism, as in, promotes growth of muscle via protein synthesis within the muscle.Increases strength when taken with training for several weeks/months/years.
I’m not affiliated with any companies selling any supplements, for full disclosure.

11

. That’s all you need. If you really want to get to the finer points on this stuff, my suggestion would be to engage a nutritionist and have some bloodwork done.
Nutritionist is a dangerous word. I’m a nutritionist. So is that person at your gym who did a belly wrap last week.

If you’re going to work with a pro, here’s what to look for:
Best: PhD, RD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: PhD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: MS, RD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: BS, RD, and runs and/or rides.
CSSD is a small bonus.
Get someone who does endurance sports.
It will be pretty rare to find someone expert at sport nutrition with any less than the above. I’m sure there are exceptions.

12

As Dr H said. If you are getting injuries in training that’s a training / recovery problem… Not a nutrition problem.

Number 1 rule : don’t do anything I trianing to cause injury. Ie, don’t overdo it. Don’t extend your volume too fast, don’t train too hard, don’t train through pain. Just don’t.

Number 2 rule: if you do get hurt don’t take anything to ease the pain AND still train. If you can’t go for a run without an nsaid/tylenol /etc don’t train.

Nutrition won’t fix any of that.

The data on multivitamins is pretty inconclusive–at best. Potentially harmful. For general rda of vitamins and minerals you will always be better off just eating a mix of foods rich in these various things.

Dr H outlined the very few supplements that MIGHT under some circumstances be of some value. Most people would just be as well off (likely better) by training more consistently (and appropriately for ability) with a decent plan.

13

Have you ever gotten a sweat test? Doing that really helped me dial in some supplements.

14

. That’s all you need. If you really want to get to the finer points on this stuff, my suggestion would be to engage a nutritionist and have some bloodwork done.
Nutritionist is a dangerous word. I’m a nutritionist. So is that person at your gym who did a belly wrap last week.

If you’re going to work with a pro, here’s what to look for:
Best: PhD, RD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: PhD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: MS, RD, and runs and/or rides.
Next best: BS, RD, and runs and/or rides.
CSSD is a small bonus.
Get someone who does endurance sports.
It will be pretty rare to find someone expert at sport nutrition with any less than the above. I’m sure there are exceptions. 100% to this. The person I worked with is an MS, RDN, LDN and triathlete. That was key for me.

15

Good question and honesty understood and appreciated. Thank you! I’ll stake my career on creatine not causing kidney and liver disease in otherwise healthy people. Likewise for high-protein diets.

If kidney pathology exists already, reducing protein and creatine consumption may be warranted, per recommendations of a nephrologist, not a regular PCP. I’m quoting a nephrologist client of mine, and amalgamating their statements with the scientific literature.

Few things are as well-researched as creatine, by the way.

Creatine does the following:
Increases muscular endurance for efforts lasting 5-60 seconds, maybe slightly longer.Increases muscular hydration (a good thing).Does NOT cause cramping (that’s internet hogwash).Causes a mild anabolism, as in, promotes growth of muscle via protein synthesis within the muscle.Increases strength when taken with training for several weeks/months/years.
I’m not affiliated with any companies selling any supplements, for full disclosure.

Hi Dr.,

My concern with creatine is the potential weight gain. I’m thinking about using it this fall to increase strength but I’m worried about those 2 lbs. I have found out that my running form is very susceptible to weight so I’m really worried that the increased weight cancels out the gains since I live in a very hilly region. Usually in fall my focus is on strength, swimming, trail running and increasing my 15-60 secs efforts on the bike.

I already have a 1 lb bag of HCL creatine at home waiting

16

My concern with creatine is the potential weight gain. I’m thinking about using it this fall to increase strength but I’m worried about those 2 lbs. I have found out that my running form is very susceptible to weight so I’m really worried that the increased weight cancels out the gains since I live in a very hilly region. Usually in fall my focus is on strength, swimming, trail running and increasing my 15-60 secs efforts on the bike.

I already have a 1 lb bag of HCL creatine at home waiting

I used to lift weights quite a bit when younger and had good muscle mass. Now, when I take creatine it really bulks me up. I guess for me it’s that old muscle memory in my body that I built up at a young age.

17

Let me make your life super easy. Eat a wide variety of foods with a focus on getting a lot of different colors of your veggies in. Eat more veggies and fruits than meat. Avoid processed foods in general. Everything in moderation, including moderation. Take a multi to cover your bases. That’s all you need. If you really want to get to the finer points on this stuff, my suggestion would be to engage a nutritionist and have some bloodwork done. I’ve used the core diet in the past (no affiliation, just something I’ve used) and I’ve appreciated their approach.

I’m agree with you. However, I’d still leave VitD intake as a supplement, because the quantity of it you can get from your diet is too small. While Vitamin D is importand to bone health, to improve muscle function, to reduce infection risk and improve cardiac health – everything that are important factors for the triathlete.

18

No worries! Just don’t take creatine if you’re concerned about the small weight increase. My wife is a triathlete and cyclist and is her team’s sprinter. There is a lot of sprinting, regardless, in cycling, especially in North American racing where criteriums are becoming increasingly common. In that case, creatine is almost certainly worthwhile.

For the pure runner or triathlete, it’s probably a waste of time and money, unless the person is seeking dramatic body composition improvement.

19

Alex I am going to respectfully disagree and say that few things are as overhyped as the benefits of creatine (and other supplements in general). Very little of the research is independent, most of it has been done by the makers of the supplements themselves or is sponsored by them. Independent research, what little of it there is tends not to show as much benefit though there are certainly benefits to weight lifters but those benefits are not likely the kind that triathletes would want. Furthermore, many of the benefits that you list are not really that relevant to a long distance endurance athlete.

Beta-alanine is another one that is way overhyped in terms of bang for the buck when in reality the benefits are likely there, but much smaller than reported in the literature where experiments are much more tightly controlled and tend to be of shorter duration than the average triathlon.

Caffeine definitely helps, no question but everyone is taking it so the benefit to using is that you are leveling the playing field.

The reality in my mind is that there are no magic bullets and no substitutes for putting in the work. Supplements just do not provide the kinds of real world advantages for age groupers that people think they do. People would be far better off saving their money and as others have mentioned in this thread, just eating healthy.

Respectfully,

20

Alex I am going to respectfully disagree and say that few things are as overhyped as the benefits of creatine (and other supplements in general). Very little of the research is independent, most of it has been done by the makers of the supplements themselves or is sponsored by them. Independent research, what little of it there is tends not to show as much benefit though there are certainly benefits to weight lifters but those benefits are not likely the kind that triathletes would want. Furthermore, many of the benefits that you list are not really that relevant to a long distance endurance athlete.

Beta-alanine is another one that is way overhyped in terms of bang for the buck when in reality the benefits are likely there, but much smaller than reported in the literature where experiments are much more tightly controlled and tend to be of shorter duration than the average triathlon.

Caffeine definitely helps, no question but everyone is taking it so the benefit to using is that you are leveling the playing field.

The reality in my mind is that there are no magic bullets and no substitutes for putting in the work. Supplements just do not provide the kinds of real world advantages for age groupers that people think they do. People would be far better off saving their money and as others have mentioned in this thread, just eating healthy.

Respectfully,
I think we agree more than you think.

The numbered 5 points about creatine was entirely canned text, just shared for context. I’m 100% onboard with those points not being beneficial in any way to triathletes.

Also agreed re: beta alanine.

As I intended to mention (haven’t checked): the list was a list of supps compiled for my wife who also is a sprint cyclist, and the list includes anything that could “quite possibly” improve performance, without respect for bang for buck. The list is a “include this if you have unlimited time and resources to implement it” list.

The primary reason I share it is so that people will get the gist that if it doesn’t make *this *list, then it’s REALLY unlikely to provide meaningful benefit to endurance performance and probably shouldn’t even be entertained by those with unlimited time & resources.

We agree on this: **People would be far better off saving their money. **I apologize for not making it more abundantly clear that this was not a specific recommendation to anyone. I usually try to include a note about that but may have forgotten.