Suddenly I can swim... well kinda

First things first, I want to thank everybody who posts sound swim advice to the newbys on this site. I have read and read and read and I think it finally took hold.

Second, what I am going to post is probably very very obvious to most of you. But on the off chance that there is somebody like me lurking around trying to figure out how to get from one end of the pool to the other without feeling like they are drowning, I will post my story.

Finally, I also know that I have a long way to go. Right now I am very very slow. But that will improve.

Okay, here is my story.

I signed up for an Oly a couple weeks ago. I had a plan. I had 3 1/2 months to figure out how to swim 1500 meters. I have access to awesome pools at my gym. I just need to figure it out. I had purchased the TI book and dvd. I have been reading everything I could find and trying to visualize myself doing all this. If after one month of trying to do this on my own I hadn’t seen significant progress, I would shell out the money for a coach.

Well on my first try, 50 meters just about killed me. I was totally out of breath, feeling panic and flailing about like a wounded ox. I just couldn’t get into any rythem for breathing and by the time I hit the wall I was spent. That first workout was pretty damned disheartening. I flailed my way through 250 meters and then tucked my tail and went home wondering what the hell I had gotten myself into.

More reading and watched the dvd again. Some great advice from somebody on this site said, “breathe every other stroke. If you do this instead of every 3rd you increase your O2 by 50%.” Well on the surface you might think, well duh, of course. But it helped. Because prior to that, I was breathing all over the place. Sometimes every 2nd, sometimes every 3rd or 4th or hell, sometimes I seemed to even forget to breath. No wonder 50 meters was killing me. So on the second workout I tried to get into some sort of rythem for trying to breathe every other stroke. Seemed to help, but I was still struggling. Trying to think about exhaling into the water, where my arms were, rotating, inhaling, and a million other things. Nothing was natural. It was all too much to try and concentrate on at the same time. So instead of making any progress, I was still flailing. On the second workout, I made 350 meters total and with the longest nonstop being 50 meters. Still winded, still flailing, but not quite as panicy.

Again more reading (thank you slowtwitch). Next day I hit the pool again and decided to try to focus on 2 things only. Breathing every other stroke and rotating my body. Let the arms do what they want and not even think about kicking etc. I was going to focus on exhaling into the water, rotating my body to my breathing side and then trying to relax enough to get air deep into my lungs instead of just gasping. The first 50 meters were encouraging. Then the next abit better!!! Then hell, lets see if I can do 100 without stopping. WOW, I did it. And I’m not even that out of breath. I suddenly have some rythem. AND I AM ROTATING. I know this because I have started to look at the ceiling as I inhale. Suddenly instead of having .01 seconds to inhale, I have 2 or 3 whole seconds. I can breathe!!! I can’t believe it. Lets go for 200 meters!!! Well I finished this workout by logging 1000 meters and completing 200 meters without stopping twice. Now I am excited. Instead of a feeling of impending doom, I suddenly have hope.

Next day’s workout is 1200 meters and I complete 400 meters without stopping. For somebody who could barely swim 2 lengths of the pool 3 days ago, to swim 16 was just plain shocking.

Next workout is 1600 meters. Completed 500 meters without stopping. Actually feeling confident now.

This morning I did 1400 meters. Started with 3 sets of 100 meters to warm up. Then was going to do 400 meters. But on the last lap I still felt good so thought I would go nuts and try for 750. That would be half of my Oly distance. Well once again on the last lap, I still felt pretty good so thought, WFT, let’s HTFU and go for 1000! Well to my amazement, I did it. 1000 meters!!! I was tired but not exhausted. With 95 days to go till my Oly, I am now 100% sure I will be able to do it. I will need to do plenty of OW swims between now and then, I know. But the bottom line is, I am now confident that I can do it.

So basically in 5 consecutive days of swimming, I have gone from a flailing wounded ox to a slow, but confident swimmer. A huge thank you to the posters here for the help.

I would like to also help, so I will post the one little tidbit of knowledge that I think I have learned. If you are overwhelmed, focus on the basics of breathing every other stroke. Concentrate on exhaling into the water, not just inhaling when you clear the surface. AND ROTATE. Turn onto your side and look up at the ceiling or sky or even your arm as it recovers. Focus on getting onto your side. It will give you time to breathe deeply. You won’t be rushed. You will no longer panic. You can do it.

Thanks again

Sounds like you’re making huge advancements. Good luck with your oly. But in all honesty you don’t actually take two to three seconds on your rotation to breather do you? I’d work on diminishing that if so. I’m not sure I could even maintain that position of my stroke for three seconds.

Oooh, I am so happy for you!!!
watch it or you’ll wind up part of the fishtwitch clique :wink:

I agree about the 2 or 3 seconds. I probably should have said it seems like 2 or 3 seconds compared to the time I used to have.

Looks good on ya!

Now, I know you are making progress and have your goals, but you really do need to start now planning to get some open water time. Way different than a pool, and if you are going to be in a wetsuit - REALLY different. Pretty much everyone will freak out a bit the first time in OW, and you really don’t want it to be at a race with a bunch of other people around and thrashing ( the idiot voice of experience here ).

Don’t need to handle it this week, but do plan to get at least 3 or 4 OW swims in before your race, with or without wetsuit as appropriate.

Keep at it, don’t be surprised if you plateau a bit, that is normal. It will get easier and you will get faster and more comfortable.

Regarding wetsuits. The race is wetsuit legal so I will definately be using one. However, I am now training pretty hard and hope to lose at least 20 lbs before the race. So my initial thought was to wait awhile before I purchase one since I hope to be somewhat smaller around the middle. Is this a good idea. How much does waist size affect the sizing of wetsuits, or is it primarily length of legs, arms and torso?

Congrats, that’s huge progress.

Now that you are confident you can do the distance, start focusing more on technique.

This also involves reducing the distance of the intervals you swim - eg just doing 25s, 50s etc. Although this may seem odd since you can swim for pretty much as long as you want now, your technique deteriorates during these longer swims and you may be teaching yourself bad habits. You can still do the same overall distance, just in bits.

Yeah weight does make a difference - check out the before/after thread - you will see me in there, so I know something about this.

20 lbs - you might be able to stay in one size - I defineitely had to change after almost 40 lbs - usually wetsuit sizing charts will have some weight ranges on them.

You have a couple of options - if you have a tri store that will let you rent one, even for practice, you might want to start there. Then you can wait and see if you actually drop the weight (no offence intended, it took me 6 months to pull off 20 lbs - less than three months for you may be a bit optimistic, but I don’t know what type of weight you are stripping off). If your long term goal is to continue tri’s, you can probably rent for your race as well, and when you get near your goal weight, then consider purchasing.

Now if the wetsuit you choose covers your 20 lb range, forget everything I just said and buy it. I could still use my Desoto with 20 lb loss. When I dropped the rest of the weight over the winter, then I had to move down one full size. YMMV by design.

…so thought, WFT, let’s HTFU and go for 1000! Well to my amazement, I did it. 1000 meters!!!

And people here sometimes have the nerve to say that I never contribute with anything positive to the Forum…

Congrats on your improvement, excellent application of “more is MORE” and “HTFU”!

Paulo, are feeling OK? You must be tired…you actually posted something congratulatory, encouraging and very positive!! :slight_smile: j/k

Well done BBdawg, keep it up.

Now get someone swimming next to you beating the hell out of you with a punching bag and you will be all set!! Congrats.

Congrats on the swimming progress!!
And about the OWS, I will have to agree with the comment on renting a wetsuit until you know what your weight is going to be. You don’t want to shell out all that money now just to have to sell it and buy another one in a few months or a year.

Congrats.

I posted the 50% more oxygen etc, though others might have as well, as long as it works.

A couple of other thoughts: Be careful not to over rotate either, you are not supposed to be on your back. You don’t need that much time to inhale, provided your exhale entirely underwater first. My feedback indicator is my lower goggle, I want to see the line of the water surface with my lower eye. If the lower goggle is higher than that, I am probably lifting my head and/or over rotating.

Another component that I found very easy to incorporate is to aim the entry hand towards the corner (same side of course) of the end I am swimming towards. This eliminated my crossover pretty effectively. Additionally, if my palm is ever so slightly open on entry, i.e. facing outward, my elbow is high almost automatically during the pull.

On the hand, my legs are a mess.

Isn’t swimming a hoot?

Jacknine, I’m glad BBdawg benefitted from your suggestion.

However, it should be pointed out that if a swimmer has difficulties breathing every 3 strokes, and then switches to every 2 strokes and finds its works for them, then this suggests that there is something wrong with the way the swimmer breathes. Specifically, it implies that the swimmer is holding their breath. Changing from bilateral to uni does not give more air, as the body can extract more oxygen from the air when breathing bi.

But changing breathing frequency may also change the dynamics of the stroke (extent of roll, etc), so in BBdawg’s ase it might be better to focus on improving uni breathing before moving to bi.

Still, gathering old posts, but so far this is what Doug had to say on breathing. For the record the rotation in the mirror idea really helped me.

Chapter 1 How to Breath
I started a new swimming clinic last night and noticed many of the usual problems: lifting the head to breathe, looking back to breathe, no arm extension into the water, and arms pulling straight down without any catch. All of these issues lead to hips and kicks going lateral.
When questioned, the swimmers were anxious about breathing. "When should I breathe? Should I hold my breath or constantly exhale? Should I breathe often or hold my breath as long as possible? Should I bilateral breathe?
I answered all their questions and posed, what I thought was a more important one, “where should you breathe?”
Timing in swimming is everything. Your head roll to breathe should fit into your body rotation. In order to rotate you need an axis to rotate around. If you are going to breathe to your left side, your right arm becomes your axis of rotation. Your right shoulder and left hip are linked (diagonal lines). As your right hand enters the water in line with your shoulder and opposite a point anywheres between your left elbow and wrist, You initiate your rotation by imagining your right hip driving toward your left hand. Your left hip opens, your left shoulder opens and at that very moment you allow your head to roll with your left shoulder and look to the left to take a breath.
Many other things have happened while this is going on. Your extended left arm is setting up its catch (primary move) in preparation for the power phase of the stroke. You are exhaling just before your head moves with your shoulder to inhale. Notice I did not say, “turn your head.” Your head moves in line with your shoulder so that it does not cause any adverse reactions. If you move in this way half your face will remain in the water as you breathe.
The easiest way for beginners to learn this pattern is to notice the hand opposite the breathing side, enter the water. Actually see it; not feel it or think about it, see it! That entering hand sets up a chain of events which allows for efficient swimming.
It took a while for the class to catch on. This was a different pattern of movement. After the third length of going over the instructions there were many smiles. The universal response was that everyone felt longer in the water and the timing of breathing was almost a non-issue.
Unless you focus on new patterns being learned they will disappear and old habits will prevail. My classes homework assignment was to notice, notice, notice.
I will see them next week.
DougStern

Chapter 1 Q/A
Q) So your face should still be completely in the water when the opposite hand starts?

A) Yes. If you breathe earlier than than you will create lateral motion from your hips and legs.
DougStern

Q) Doug, so let me get this straight…when I breath, my head is looking at the side of the pool. Is this correct?

A) Yes, any further back will take your head out of alignment.
DougStern
Q) I don’t have a problem with my breathing side stroke. But often struggle trying to mirror my stoke on the non breathing side. Is this the appropriate way to go about this? It’s obviously a different stoke because you’re rotating to extend the face far enough out of the water breath. However on the opposite side the the rotation of the head/face is not required. Should my shoulder and hip rotation be the same? Clear as mud I’m sure.

A) Turning your head has nothing to do with body rotation. It is all kick, hips and shoulders.
Ideally you should rotate evenly on both sides.
DougStern

Q) So you’re saying that if I breathe to the right. When I rotate to my left my head/mouth should be at the same location, where I could breathe, looking at the side of the pool.

A) If you allow your head to move with your shoulders in that direction.
Stand in front of a mirror and look at your reflection. Now, without turning your head rotate your shoulders and hips first to the right and then to the left. Notice that you are actively keeping your head centered. Now let your head remain in line with your shoulders as you rotate. You can breathe on either side evenly.
DougStern

Q) I really have a problem keeping my head steady (when not breathing).
I’m aware of it, and sometimes it is working ok - but not always.
I assume, it is primary a matter of in-water balance and neck flexibility.

A) Pick up a center snorkel and do some swimming with it. You will be able to breathe without ever turning your head to the side providing you do not drown first.
DougStern

Q) I have been able to visualize this for some time but I can’t breathe in without inhaling water while half my face is still submerged. Any way to resolve that short of growing gills?

A) Start your exhalation just before your roll your shoulders to breathe and finish it just as your mouth clears the water. You will have blown water out and away from your mouth so that you can breathe in air.
DougStern

Q) Here’s a “you don’t learn without asking the question” question.

If you’re seeing your extended hand enter the water, aren’t you looking up too much rather then down at the bottom?
or is this just an exercise to try until you get the breathing right. Then you can go back to looking at the endless black line.

A) Barry,
Sit down and take and deep breathe. Are you ready? I do not look at the bottom of the pool. There is no information to be gotten by looking at the bottom of the pool.
Do keep your head in a neutral position with your head in line with your shoulders and use your peripheral vision to direct your line of sight. With my head in this position I can look downward if I choose or slightly forward to find my hands.
Any fore/aft alignment you might lose by looking forward you more than make up with lateral alignment and gain in power. Once your stroke is perfect and you enjoy looking down, go for it!
DougStern

Q) Thanks Doug! Very easy to visualize what you have described. As an adult-onset swimmer, I can say that your tips are uber helpful.

I’ve been able to incorporate much of what you have described. One thing though, do you have any “fixes” for folks like me who have good rotation (“good” being a relative term) but have a problem with having to rotate too far to breath? In my case, I feel that my shoulders are just slightly pass vertical when I breath. “TI” philosophy says this okay, just rotate farther… I can’t help but feel like I’m plowing through the water when I breath. Any tips?

A) You are actually going to rotate more from your hips than shoulders. If you look at many top swimmers, their shoulders do not rotate on the long axis of their bodies. They rotate on a line from finger tip through the shoulder and have two axes of rotation, one for each arm and shoulder.
DougStern

Q) Doug, help me a bit more here. When I went to the pool, when I went to breath on the right, I had one eye in the water and one out. To ensure that I kept one eye in the water ( half my head submerged), I looked at the right lane rope when breathing right with my left eye, so that I saw the rope undewater…and right eye, looking at left rope underwater when breathing on the left. Does this make sense? It seemed to keep me from lifting my head, which Dr. Tommy pointed out as being a problem.

A) This does make sense. Part of your body position in the water has to do with how well you float. If you do not float you will ride lower when you are swimming and your head will be a bit lower as well.
As long as you are getting enough air and your head stays in alignment you are doing fine.
DougStern

Q) I have been working on keeping my head as low as possible and breathing “under” the water, but I find I can’t breath in the bow wave on a consistent basis. Its also more difficult to do when I breath to my left. Anyone have any good insight into this mysterious bow wave and how I can master it?

A) It does not matter which side you breathe to, the mechanics are exactly the same.
Your head should be in a neutral position. My eyes are looking slightly forward. Your lead arm is in a catch position when your opposite arm just enters the water. Feel as if you are driving your opposite hip toward your lead arm. You hip will open on the catch side arm which in turn will cause your shoulder to roll open. Let your head move in line with your shoulder to breathe. You will find that your head will barely move and you will have sufficient time to breathe without causing any alignment errors in your stroke.
DougStern

Q) For all the few years I have been swimming, I did 3 stroke breathing since I assumed this made one the fastest.
I read one post on ST that said the person 3 stroke in practice, but 2 stroked in races.

Well, I have found that with my 6 months of masters swimming, I no longer basically ever 3 stroke breath, it is always 2 stroke.
As I am not pushing the pace, there is no way I can 3 stroke breath and swim.

So, is this others experience that to swim fast one needs lots of fresh air so 2 stroke breathing is what has to be done?

A) As said, top swimmers breathe every stroke cycle. Even 100 meter world class sprinters will breathe every stroke cycle after the first 25 meters.
One of the biggest errors in swimming is the timing of the breathing. Whether you breathe every third stroke or second stroke your breathe is taken in line and timed with your shoulder roll toward the beginning of your stroke. When done properly, your head should barely move.
When swimming at a moderate pace we do not exhale completely. This is the same as if you were going for a run or bike ride. As the pace picks up, the depth of your breath increases. Make sure you exhale in the water before you inhale. Hold your breathe until just before you turn to breathe. If you are constantly exhaling you are also constantly sinking.
dougStern

Q) Thanks for mentioning this. I’ve never felt comfortable with my breath timing, and a coach recently pointed out I start my breathing/head roll while gliding, meaning my face was already out of the water during the catch/roll phase.

Are there any exercises/drills to work on this timing? I tried to adjust the breath timing while swimming and it feels very awkward.

A) Look for you extended arm on the breathing side and as soon as your hips start let your head roll with your shoulders. Make sure you see your hand before you turn to breathe.
dougStern

My guess is that you are a pretty good swimmer and have been swimming for a long time.

Most of you have difficulty appreciating the issues poor swimmers like myself and BBdawg deal with because the fundamentals have been ingrained for so many years. How many times a swim do you think about pointing your toes?

There are so many moving parts for us that we have to focus on the most fundamental issues for a long time at the expense of others and every aspect of the swim stroke requires conscious thought for us in the early stages.

While there comes a stage of development where your point is correct, it is pretty difficult to work on anything as long as you feel that you cant breathe. It therefor make perfect sense for us to delay the fancier stuff until we have alignment, rotation, kicking down to the point where it is second nature.

Jacknine, I agree with your post. I must point out that I do coach swimmers as well, the majority of whom are triathletes who struggle with swimming. Most, if not all, of them had issues with breathing initially, consequently I agree that you must focus on this alone at some stage, and not focus on other aspects of the stroke. This is why I suggested above that BBdawg learn to breathe properly using uni before returning to try bi - every aspect of swimming requires small steps.

The main point I was attempting to make was that in this situation it appears to me that BBdawg’s changing from bi to uni is to compensate for his breathing style (most likely), not because uni is better than bi or gives you more air. Bi is the goal but uni might help you get there!

And trust me, you still have to think about these things no matter what speed you are, it doesn’t change, there are always things to concentrate on.

I have been a tennis coach in a former life and occassionally have to swing a golf club, much against my will but the better half has a charity event.

Nothing comes close to swimming in complexity. I have accepted that it is a multi year project for to become even a decent swimmer technically. On the other hand, with so many areas to work on, there can be steady progress for a long time.

I enjoyed our conversation,

jacknine

“Nothing comes close to swimming in complexity” - you wouldn’t be the first person to say that! :slight_smile:

Beautiful. Keep the good work on that Doug Stern quotes book thing.