Looking for a plan that focuses on pacing and training for a sub 2:50 marathon. I could build one myself but has anyone come across one on the internet? I’d like a pdf or doc so I can print it.
I’m willing to shell a few bucks too, soemthign that’s 2/day runs and focusing on marathon speed and maybe slightly longer then 16 weeks?
Let me see what you guys find!
I just bought Jack Daniels running formula (2nd edition) last night. Go buy it…highly worth it.
Hansons’ training guide http://www.hansons-running.com/ - look under training plans (you are probably advanced if going sub- 3).
I would also mix in some “Yasso 800s” every 6 weeks. Yasso is simply 10 X 800m on the 2:50 (marathon goal time in hour:minutes) with a 200m on the 2:50 (same time it takes you to do the 800m) recovery. If you can knock out the ten 800s consistently on the 2:50 you WILL run a 2:50:00 marathon!
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I just bought Jack Daniels running formula (2nd edition) last night. Go buy it…highly worth it.
x2. Great advice.
i knocked out 10 at 2:32 avg last week. i’m not in 2:32 shape.
every time someone mentions the dated yassos 800s i just chuckle.
if you divided a 24 week marathon training program into 4 parts, youd see 800s at vo2max in the 2nd out of 4 training block. there are more specific adaptions that need to be made such as increasing your threshold and time at 95% of your threshold (M pace) towards the end of your season.
im actually training someone to go sub 2:50 at the philadelphia marathon coming up. his training contains 2x20mins @ 6min/mi and hour runs at 6:20min/mi
Yep, the ability to run Yasso’s doesn’t say you can run a marathon at that pace but the inability to run Yasso’s probably says you can’t run one.
And I’d take 5 seconds off the Yasso pace, so run 10 x 2:45 for a 2:50 marathon. That seems to be the general consensus.
I just bought Jack Daniels running formula (2nd edition) last night. Go buy it…highly worth it.
x2. Great advice.
x3 Of all the books I’ve read, Daniels is the one I most closely follow.
i’m more in line with seasonschange here. yasso’s aren’t the best predictor. half x2 plus 8-10minutes is fairly solid if you have fitness.
2x20min at 6min is solid. 1hr at goal pace is solid.
I’m going to make a run at 2:50 here in a couple of weeks. This is the second marathon I’ve used a combo of two plans. I built a plan on Runner’s World that uses a calculator similar to McMillin and is more traditional in the sense that it has several 20 milers in it along with regular speed work. It’s Ok and I use it as a basic guide.
The second plan I use is the Hanson’s. What I do is typically build mileage up using the RW plan with only 1 or 2 20 milers and then the last month I switch more to the Hanson’s based plan. I run 40 - 60 miles a week during this time…any more and I start to break down a bit…I’m almost 41!!! It worked well earlier this year and I plan on running a 2:50 in the Monumental marathon. The plan is to run on pace through about 18 miles and then see if I can pick it up over the last 8 to maybe break 2:50. I just ran a 1:21 half on a somewhat hilly half this past weekend and ran it at about 90% effort so I’m hoping I’m on target!
I’m not sure that you really need to spend any money unless you want to hire a coach.
Yep, the ability to run Yasso’s doesn’t say you can run a marathon at that pace but the inability to run Yasso’s probably says you can’t run one.
And I’d take 5 seconds off the Yasso pace, so run 10 x 2:45 for a 2:50 marathon. That seems to be the general consensus.
I second that: interval is too short, rest is too much to really indicate the fitness needed.
Sub-2:50 would probably be reliably indicated by doing 8x1600m repeats with a 200m walk/jog rest, in cool conditions (i.e. ideal) in 5:50 or faster. But I’ve never ran that fast, and being able to do 10x1600m in 6:00 didn’t get me under 3:00, but I went out in 1:25ish and died.
10x1600m in 6:00 didn’t get me under 3:00, but I went out in 1:25ish and died.
was it your fitness or your pacing?
Volume, volume and volume. LT work early in the cycle and MP pace late in the cycle. Yasso is not even a factor in the discussion.
I’ll see you at monumental. I ran a 2:57 in Chicago at abotu 90% and I think with cooler temps I could drop 5 minutes (especially without all the turns and hoards of people. That 2:57 was for a total of 26.62 miles so I ran almost 2:30 mins longer then I needed to! I now have better strategy for turns. I learn something every marathon and apexing was what I learned!
Hope to see you at Monumental!
The one thing that many “plans” leave out strangely is the weekly run at marathon race pace. It’s most likely left out or not touched on because the effort/intensity for this sort of run does not fall nicely into one of the “zones”. However, on race day, your legs could care less about what zone you are running in, they only care about how long you can run at that pace!
You want to start to build up a volume of time running at that pace - whatever it is. For a 2:50 it’s a bit less than 7:00 min/mile. If you are in decent shape it will seem dead-easy, but that is and is not the point. It should be reasonably easy for 20 plus miles, then it will be a push for the final 6!
Sounds like we’ll be running at a similar pace! I can tell you that over the next week and a half a lot of my runs will be done at marathon pace before I taper from there. I’m at a point right now that 10 miles at marathon pace (6:30) is very easy and actually feels pretty slow. Most of my speed work has been mile repeats @ 5:30 with an 800 jog in between…not 10 of them though! You’ll get 50 different opinions and probably no wrong answers. I’ve adapted to what my body responds best to which is nothing under 7 miles and most runs at mp or faster…however taper is critical for me since I run pretty hard most of the time.
I’ll see you at monumental. I ran a 2:57 in Chicago at abotu 90% and I think with cooler temps I could drop 5 minutes (especially without all the turns and hoards of people. That 2:57 was for a total of 26.62 miles so I ran almost 2:30 mins longer then I needed to! I now have better strategy for turns. I learn something every marathon and apexing was what I learned!
Hope to see you at Monumental!
I recorded the same distance on my Garmin. I think its half running wide turns, half Garmin inaccuracy. I’d like to see an option for Garmin where you can pre-load a known race course before hand. This way the Garmin can correct itself automatically in real time and it won’t flat-line when going under bridges and through tunnels (especially tunnels).
We are in very similar places. My PR is 2:57 (twice), and I’m looking to go sub 2:50 in the spring. I have adapted the Hal Higdon training program into my own format/spreadsheet.
You’ve got to modify whatever you use to your own weaknesses. I’m a firm believer in training your weaknesses (mine is speed).
I look forward to seeing what others add here…
I believe the most impotant thing about hitting the time goal is finding a plan with the right volume and then running at the proper paces for the three main workouts. I have read the heck out of Jack Daniel’s book, but generally have preferred Pfitzinger’s plans (Either Road Racing for serious runners or his marathoning book). The last time actually I pretty much followed the training that a female elite runner Yolanda Flamino (who won the Golden gate marathon in 2007) had logged in a website called Athletic core. I had to slow the paces a bit since she ran a 2:43 on a hilly course (hence a little faster than 2:50). That website is pretty good, because youu can check out what a variety of good runners are doing to hit their times.
Pfitzinger has a great plan, you can use McMillan to help determine the paces for the tempo/threshold runs. I don’t think there is a lot of magic, just being in a position to handle the volume and doing the work at the appropriate paces.
Sub-2:50 would probably be reliably indicated by doing 8x1600m repeats with a 200m walk/jog rest, in cool conditions (i.e. ideal) in 5:50 or faster.
That workout would indicate a VDOT of ~61 and a marathon time around 2:41.
I ran 2:43 last weekend and that workout would be a real stretch for me. Doing those miles at 6:05-6:10 would put one in the 2:50 area.