With the beginning of medical school upcoming, I’ve decided to take a break from the sport of triathlons for a year or two (i.e. only biking/swimming a few times each month) and focus on marathons.
I’m looking for a book that will help me get to sub 2:35 and beyond. Currently, I’m sitting at a 2:40 PR with 0 structure in my training. I pretty much just wake up, and decide what I’m doing mid-run (no HR monitor, GPS watch or anything, everything I do is based on feel). This usually just creates a ton of tempo, no speed for weeks on end. I’ve read and heard the praise of ‘Going Long’, but I’m not sure how the book will work for only one discipline. Any personal recommendations?
Jack Daniels, “Daniels Running Forumla,” the bible for distance runners
Pete Pfitzinger, “Advanced Marathoning,” has good plug and play marathon programs for runners at various mileage levels (55 and above)
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Jack Daniels, “Daniels Running Forumla,” the bible for distance runners
Pete Pfitzinger, “Advanced Marathoning,” has good plug and play marathon programs for runners at various mileage levels (55 and above)
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Those are the best 2 books out there. I was in a similar situation to yours and tried the toughest plan in Daniels book. Failed miserably. It’s hard, probably too hard.
Nothing is really written for sub 2:40 guys. Not enough potential buyers. Just like there isn’t a good book on how to qualify for Kona.
One thing I would encourage you to do is keep a log and look at what trainning seems to work for you.
At the risk of sounding like Fleck, back in the day I was able to get into 2:30 shape by just running a lot, with 2x day on some days and speed work like 4x1mile and 6x800M, no heart rate monitors and fancy gps. I would consider myself to have very average talent at best. It’s amazing what you get when you work out a lot and apply the basic laws of progression, It helps to be young also.
I don’t think you need a book. You just need to self-impose a little bit of that structure you’ve been lacking. If you can run 2:40 off of that little structure, you can go much faster with just a little bit of discipline.
Whatever you do, keep a log. A detailed one.
Daniels book is great for planning your speed work but not so great (in my opinion) for planning the other 5-6 days of the week.
I like Pfitzinger’s book too but for what it’s worth, those who knew and ran with Pfitzinger back in his heyday say that his training was nothing like his book prescribes.
Galloway tells people to train a way he didn’t too. But walk breaks weren’t what got him to the Olympics and so far no has anyone managed to use them to get there so it’s arguable how much “wiser” he really is.
On the other hand it apparently has sold a lot of books so perhaps the wisdom is financial.
A book would probably help him define the structure. As for the other days of the week with Daniels, what’s to plan? If it’s not a Q day, it’s an E day. Sounds to me like you’re dissing Daniels’ plan.
Daniels books, Pfitzingers book is good. I really like Brad Hudsons methd for the age grouper but It all is based off Arthur Lydiard’s. While all these plans are great you really need to have the program tailored to your background and your needs.I also think that you may want to find a coach to monitor the program. Just because the workout says Tuesday is 800 repeats does not mean you are recovered from the long run sunday to do that set. structure will help you get to your goal and if you have done 2:40 you can do get that 2:35 with structure. I ran under 2:30 using the Lydiard method but that is what we used close to 30 years ago.
Also if you can find a training group who is close to your level. Be careful to not thrash each other work together.
I pretty much just wake up, and decide what I’m doing mid-run (no HR monitor, GPS watch or anything, everything I do is based on feel).
That’s actually one of the best attempts at training I’ve seen on ST in a long time.
The only thing I would look out for is a bunch of guys who are running marathons around 2:25-2:40. Not easy to find depending on where you live but that’s what lifted me from 2:38 in London to a 2:33 in NYC.
Why the group? To make the tempos feel easier and do the track intervals harder.
If you still insist on having a plan, this weekly schedule fits 90% of the pack:
Tue track w/o at 3-5k pace (rarely slower) such as 6*800 or ladders
Thu Tempo 20-40mins at 10M-HM pace
weekend long run 2-3hrs, pace depending on phase of training
Fill this with 45-90min easy runs and double up on Tue/Thu with a 30’ jog.
A book would probably help him define the structure. As for the other days of the week with Daniels, what’s to plan? If it’s not a Q day, it’s an E day. Sounds to me like you’re dissing Daniels’ plan.
I like Daniels for the vocabulary he gives you for speedwork and the principles behind it. I think he’s invaluable for that. However one of the (few) things I’ve always dis-liked about his stuff is the entire notion of presenting an “E” pace in the first place. If I tried to actually run what he says I should for easy pace I’d be worn out.
Hmmm. I suspect the delta between Pete Pfitzinger’s “Advanced Marathoning” and his actual training is a quite a bit smaller than the delta between Galloway’s training and his run/walk BS. My guess is that Pfitzinger ran a lot more mileage than he prescribes in the book (I believe he admits as such) but then again the purchasing audience for people looking to run <2:20 marathons is pretty small! Even accepting that point, I do suspect there are likely elements of his training that he looks back upon and thinks, “Why did I bother doing that?” There are lots of training practices employed by elite athletes in the 1980s that have been discredited now.
I’ve actually always thought Pfitzinger’s book was quite good regardless of how closely it approached his actual training. It will always be on my shelf. (Not so, Galloway’s!)
Alright, I have to ask: So you ran 2:40 on “no structure”. Do you have much of running background? I would have to assume with that kind of performance you’ve run at a competitive level before? If so, I would think you have a at least a rough training plan, based on what you’ve been told to do before by other coaches.
i think the beauty of running is that it isn’t that coach involved. Sure you could maybe get faster working with a coach. But I know plenty of fast runners who just talk to other runners as fast (or faster) than they are. They bounce ideas for workouts off each other, and try to diagnose each other’s training problems.
I second Uli. It’s all about finding other fast guys to train and race with. That is the way to go, then the workouts will just work themselves out.
But what do I know, I’ve only gone 2:36.
And for training I tend to go more towards the strength side of things. lots of mile repeats, longer tempos into race pace intervals. long hills. But I also have no speed, so maybe that’s why I do those kinds of workouts.
