Sub 18 minute 5k <15 mpw?

Here is my revelation. With job and family I only have time to train 4-6 hours per week. Mornings belong to my wife, and I do most of my training at night.

Last month I’ve kept a log. I bike between 60-80mpw and run 8-12. Today I ran an 18:44 5k. I’m 31 weigh 146 and have approximately 8%Bf. Can I find another 44 seconds by just continuing to run short and fast (i.e. all runs between 6:45-6:15 pace) Or do I need to up my milage? I’d rather not, due to my knees being not so hot-bad genetics.

I really want to run in the 17’s before age catches up with me. My pr is 16:36 but that was 12 years ago when I weighed 128 pounds and routinely ran 80-90mpw. The race today was in flats so that advantage has already been taken.

I love the bike and ride too little as it is. Would I be helped adding a couple miles to my runs and slowing down the pace (6 miles at 6:45 as opposed to 3 miles at 6:20) or would that be detrimental to my leg speed?

Yes it can be done but there are caveats. I run 15 miles a week. 3x5 miles, one run is SLOW, one run is tempo and one run is fartlek (my version of speed work). I’m 43 and still flirt with the 17:00 level…my days of low 16’s are over :frowning:

I’ve never run more than 40 miles/week in my entire life but I have MANY years or 30-35 mpw. I think that a big historic base can let you get away with a lot. I have been dealing with knee issues all year due to general overtraining and not enough stretching/general care. I knew better but once you get going you start to feel invincible and at my age, you just aren’t :wink:

I’m no coach.

My gut says you’ll have to up the mileage.

From my own personal experience…I’ve gotten the biggest gains from LSD training. Jogging at what feels like a ridiculously slow pace. I do two of these runs a week. one for 60 - 75 mins and the other 90 mins or longer depending on where I am in my training cycle.

My weekly mileage has varied over the years from 10mpw - 60+mpw.

As far as your age goes…you have lots of time…I’m 43. Your 18:44 would have got you MOP in my age group last week. 1st. 2nd and 3rd place were all under 6min miles and two of these guys didn’t even start running until they were 35.

Good luck !

I knew better but once you get going you start to feel invincible and at my age, you just aren’t :wink:

Damn…you make 43 sound old.

Not exactly what you are looking for, but Slowman (Dan Empfield) has written an article on this site entitled "How to Kill your 10K PR’. My cut and paste skills are lousy, but you can find it using the search function. Good luck !

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/How_to_Kill_Your_10k_PR_258.html
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Everyone is different, but you should be pleased as punch you can still do mid 18s on that little run mileage. Upping it to 25 miles to drop 60 sec. is probably the ticket. That would still mean just 5-6 runs and less than 3 hours a week. Bet that’s all you need. You don’t ***have ***to ride 3-5 hours a week year-round. A couple hours riding a week will maintain some cycling fitness for a couple months while you concentrate on the run. Sorry 85-mile weeks only got you to 16:36 back in the day, must have been frustrating … You also could have been “on the verge” of a big PR when you bagged it too, I bet. I feel like I have been there many times (Who knows?)

your times disgust me. thats crazy fast for the level of training

damn lightweight people

don’t tell me to put the fork down, im skinny, im just tall!

lol

LOL…sorry :slight_smile:

I guess I’m having a tough year. It used to be that I could recover from anything really fast, now not so much. A simple Oly triathlon on a Sunday wouldn’t faze me the rest of the day. Now I have to make sure to take some strict recovery days or I feel like crap.

Don’t even get me started about going out the night before a race…

It did suck to only run in the mid 16’s after working so hard… again I’ll have to blame the parents :wink:

But thank you all for the ansewers and the article by slowman. It was well written and addressed a lot of thoughts that I had.

You bike between say 3-4 hrs/wk, and run say 1-1.5 hrs/wk, and want to know how to get faster at running?

Hmmmm?..

Put your bike on hold for a little while. A couple of 30 minute, hard sessions, and you won’t lose anything.

Here’s something slowman wrote a long time ago that I think fits your situation to a “T”:

“I want 'ol Dan to tell me how I can run a fast 10-k on 20 miles per week.”

here’s how you do it. run 5 times per week.

two of those times run a 3 mile tempo run, with a half-mile of warmup and warm down. there’s 8 of your 20 miles.

once per week run two miles warmup, then run (on a track) a one-mile time trial. in other words, 4 times around as fast as you can. then warm down one mile. tactically, what you do is figure out what high school is on your way home from work, unless it’s too dark out. if so, you might need to do this on a weekend day.

so far we’re up to 12 miles.

now, for the remaining 8 miles, run one easy 5 mile run, and one easy 3 mile run. run these when you feel you need them, that is, if you go out to run one of your tempo runs, and you just don’t feel good, turn that into your easy run and push your tempo run off a day or two.

if you get toward the end of the week and you’ve skipped a day, then take your two remaining runs, and your one remaining day, and turn this into a distance run by adding the mileage up. or, feel free to run a double (run your 3 mile easy run and one of your tempo runs in the morning and evening of the same day).

one more thing. on everything fast—tempo runs and timed miles—make sure you negative split. a good way to make sure you do this is to make your tempo run and out and back. establish a record for this run, but the record can only be “official” if you negative split (run faster back then out). on your timed mile, every lap ought to be the same or faster than the one before.

do this for 10 weeks. don’t start your times miles until 5 weeks into this. that 4 miles will just be another easy run for the first 5 weeks. after theses 10 weeks, you’ll set your 10k PR. if you make it to the race healthy (this is a stressful program. but, you asked for it, didn’t you?).

Yes it can be done but there are caveats. I run 15 miles a week. 3x5 miles, one run is SLOW, one run is tempo and one run is fartlek (my version of speed work). I’m 43 and still flirt with the 17:00 level…my days of low 16’s are over :frowning:

I’ve never run more than 40 miles/week in my entire life but I have MANY years or 30-35 mpw. I think that a big historic base can let you get away with a lot. I have been dealing with knee issues all year due to general overtraining and not enough stretching/general care. I knew better but once you get going you start to feel invincible and at my age, you just aren’t :wink:
You make me sick.
I was doing multiple 40+ mile weeks this last year and killed myself this last weekend to go 20:08 at a 5k.

:slight_smile:

Get your skis ready, it’s going to be a big year!

:slight_smile:

Get your skis ready, it’s going to be a big year!
Gee, thanks for reminding me that there IS one thing out there that I suck at worse than running. I had forgot about how humbling x-country skiing was until now, you a$$.

Hey Rick,

I feel your pain. All I can add is that it can be done. I have been averaging according to my logs ~1.5 hours per week. Most of this is my bicycle commute to work on powercranks. With just this amount of training, I have been able to tick off a 17:17 5k and a 34:42 10K (separated by 24 hours). Im 37, 150#s 6’1", and run at a pretty high cadence. On the powercranks, I bike at around a 95-100rpm. I think that practicing with something that you can check you cadence would be useful information. Also, I would say that if you do at least one race per week (even a local free running club thing), it would help. If you have young ones, and live in an area where it is safe to do so, push them in a jogger. The hillier, the better. Just make sure that you can control the jogger well so that you dont dump them, or get them hurt. This will increase your strength quite a bit after doing it consistantly for a while. Im not sure if this helps at all, but for what it is worth, it has helped me out.

Stephen J