Last year I went 01:10:00 in the swim at IMLP, at a very conservative pace, as it was my first Ironman. I come from a swimming background (age 6 through High School, and USMC Combat Swim Instructor). I’ll be returning to IMLP this year and recently I’ve been toying with the idea of trying for a sub 1 hour swim without destroying my bike/run. So before I posted here I decided to do a little math and pose the question to my coach.
The way I see it a 2.4 mile swim at a 1:25 min/100 yrd pace BARELY breaks 1 hour. Here are my calculations:
My Coach’s answer was it’s better to do a 01:10:00 and have a good race, than break an hour in the water and have a horrible bike or run leg. As usual, good advice and that’s my plan.
Unfortunately it’s just my nature to beat a dead horse. I’d like to know what you sub 1 hour “fish” are doing for splits in your pool workouts.
If I were to be able to do 43 x 100 yards on a 1:25 send-off would that be enough to break an hour? I understand that “wall tag” swimming in the pool is significantly different than open water swimming in an Ironman. Regardless, what translates into pool workout split times to go sub1 hour in an Iron distance swim? Just curious…
Joel, I usually swim dead on 1 hour for an IM swim. In the pool, I can hold 1:25/100 pace easily if I’m swimming straight. If I’m doing 100yd intervals ON the 1:25 it’s a bit harder.
But I tend to swim better in races than in the pool. I attribute that to being a crappy flipturner, and the fact that I can wear a fullsuit and draft in the race.
Your math ignores the wetsuit and the draft, which are huge factors in the swim. I do 1:10 in Lake Placid too. 1:00 will never happen for me, but I don’t have a swimming background.
Take away the wetsuit and the draft and I would do 1:30 at Lake Placid. I would be much more tired to boot. The difference is that much.
No, not in the pool. I do one lap of the Lake Placid course on my own in 44:00 without wetsuit, 36:00 with wetsuit. First lap on race day is 34:00 because of the draft. These times are repeatable to within just a couple of seconds, believe it or not.
This is my first IM year … so with that qualifier, here is my take. I am from strong swimming background, NCAAs, etc., typically am b/t 25-27 min for 1/2 IM and under 20 for Oly routinely. Three types of swim workouts that I think would help you the most:
(1) Straight swim 1 hr for distance. This gets you used to a set pace over the time - and you can try to do 4000 yds or so in the hour while keeping your HR in check. If you can do this, then with the draft and the wetsuit, you are probably good to go.
(2) A second, very useful approach would be to do 4 x 1000 or 8 x 500 with 10-15 sec rest b/t each with a goal of holding a target pace over the whole thing. This will give you an indication of whether your problem is endurance (you lose pace over time) or speed (you are comfortable, and evenly split, just slow) over the relevant distance.
(3) If you have a speed limiter, and can hold your technique together, then something like 20 x 100 on 10 sec rest would be a good workout to get you swimming a little faster.
Ideally, you’d try (1) and if you missed on that, then try (2) and (3) to see where the limiter is. For IMers from a swimming background, its usually not having a middle gear, so to speak. Either too fast w/o enduracne b/c of little water time or too slow and easy. The sweet spot for sub 1 hr swim is in the middle.
FWIW, your coach is probably right. After all, if going 10 min faster in the swim forces you to walk 2 miles of the marathon later, then there goes your 10 min savings out the window.
I am about a 55’ IM swimmer, 54:36 no wetsuit at Kona last year. In the pool I’ll do 5 x 200 @ 3:00 holding < 2:40 pace. I’ll shoot for 7:00 for 500s which is a little better than 1:25 pace. I have thought about trying to get ‘up’ to the next pack of swimmers around 52 - 53’, but feel the effort, both in the race and in training, would be too much for too little return. I swim 3x a week, about 4000m each.
I am not a 1 hour swimmer…but I have done IMLP in less than an hour. My secret is that I draft off of the fish. I am not a great swimmer, I am a great drafter…I know that with out the draft I am a 120+ swimmer. That will play a large part of your time (I think). My first swim at IMLP in 99 I was shocked when I got out of the water and saw that I was about 20 minutes faster than I thought I should be…and felt great. I am not sure if I am nuts but I see very little in common from my times in the pool (crappy flip turn) and my times at the heels of a “real” swimmer.
i went 56 and change at imcda last year. main sets were 8x500 on 7 minute intervals, usually had me touching the wall between 6:30 and 6:45. right now doing repeat hundreds, i can typically hold 1:15 or better. on average, i can maintain 1:20’s throughout my workout without huge efforts, although i don’t quite have the muscular endurance that i had last season at this point.
I am a semi-swimmer (I don’t do flip turns at all). Currently, I can do a 4225 yd swim in 1:14 at cruising speed (first half bilateral breathing), about 1:09 pushing it but which definitely feels too hard for IM race pace. Both of these are non-wetsuit and non-drafting of course. I am dropping my 1000 yd montly TT by 15-20 seconds based on increasing yardage (now about 13-15k per week) and some interval training (20 x 200 @ 3:30 or 12 x 400 @7 min). My goal starting out last fall was to swim IMC in 1:10. With the wetsuit and drafting I thought I was pretty close. But from the sound of this thread, I might be in for a surprise. R10ti - did you worry (i.e. freak out) when you got out of the water in '99 about overdoing it in the water and blowing your race too soon??
In 99 that was not only my first IronMan - that was my first Tri ever…never did any tri race at all prior to an IM…so I was not educated enough to be scared - that was also my PR IronMan and I only get slower…go figure eh?
“i went 56 and change at imcda last year. main sets were 8x500 on 7 minute intervals, usually had me touching the wall between 6:30 and 6:45. right now doing repeat hundreds, i can typically hold 1:15 or better. on average, i can maintain 1:20’s throughout my workout without huge efforts, although i don’t quite have the muscular endurance that i had last season at this point.”
To paraphrase MC Hammer - Can’t touch that.
The same goes for efernand. You guys make sure you pick up your towels and stuff in T1 for when the rest of us come through. Thanks.
My experience is a bit different from the others. I do not come from a swimming backround and my IM swims (12) average about 57. I could not possibly average 125/100 in a pool. In fact I have a hard time going 1.25 for one 100! I am rare in that because I do not have a swimming backround I am actually faster inn open water. The only trick I have is to follow someone who swims fast and straight. If you want to get right behind me at LP, I’ll find the fast straight one to follow.
I agree with the rest of the posters so far. Go for sets like 8x500 or 4x1000, and probably better if 2x2000. Also, switch over to long course (50m if at all possible). I went 52’ at Lake Placid in 01 and 02 in poor shape, but was able to hold 4:50-5:00 for 400 meters, or 5:25-5:30 for 500 yard repeats (6-8) a few weeks before. However, I also agree with the wetsuit and drafting suggestions. DRAFTING IS VITAL. I missed the lead pack of pros in 02 after I got held up trying to get through the pack of the slower ones, so I ended up swimming most of the portion on my own. A big issue is to get out FAST to try and avoid the boxing matches that go on at the beginning of the mass starts in the ironman. I think this is mostly where your swim is won or lost because you either make the break you need or don’t, so you have to plan out a course of attack at the beginning, and then just hope for some luck too.
One of my favorite sets I give IM swimmers is 40 x 100 @ 1:30. Try to start out at goal IM pace for the first 20-25 repeats, then pick it up to pace minus :05 sec for the rest. It is good to evaluate where you are and teaches you proper pace control. We have found that come race day, take it easy and stay controlled and smooth + the wetsuit and draft – probably sub one hr swim with little harm done to the rest of the race. This is of course predicated on the fact that you are able to do the above set and the other types of sets already mentioned by the Tall dude!
I’ve had a morning full of meetings. Sorry for the late response.
Thanks for all the great input. I know pool vs. open water swimming is an apples to oranges comparison. You all really helped me establish a bar for my pool workouts and the times I need to achieve at various distances.
For my swim workout yesterday I did 5 sets of 5 X 100 yards on a 1:30 send off with a 1 minute rest between sets. The 1st two sets I was consistently hitting the wall at 1:12 to 1:15. The next two sets I was using paddles, concentrating on form and hitting at about 1:15 to 1:18. The last set I swam without paddles and was hitting the wall at 1:18 to 1:22.
I’ll be trying many of your recommendations, at the various distances in the near future and giving the feed back to my coach. Most of the recommended distances and number of reps are on my training schedule in one form or another.
A sub 1 hour swim may be possible for me, but it looks like I’m going to have to pick the right person to draft.
Hope to see many of you at IMLP in July. There will be about 10 of us from Insideout Sports racing at IMLP this year (plus the Expo folks). I’ll be with that crowd. Find them and you can’t miss me.
I think that you may want to work on form rather than concentrating on sets, or speeds, etc. I swam under 1 hour a year ago at IMLP and the total training I did was swim 6X from the previous years IMLP. I did not grow up as a swimmer, as a matter of fact, I stunk; until I learned how to swim from my wife. It took only three months to go from middle of the pack to front of the pack (well, not front of the pack in larger tris). It dont think that it takes too much effort to do it, just a good coach, and a video camera. Good luck, and swim smart.
It sounds like at least in part that your a gifted swimmer. I have been doing the TI drills all winter (started the book last summer). It has help considerably. BUt I have read, and agree with, the belief that around 15:30 -16 min for a 1000yd tt, that propulsion becomes more important while maintaining form. I continue to do the drills along with distance workouts and increasing amounts of higher intensity sets. At 5’4", form isn’t going to get me a whole lot more. Efficiency is extremely key for me. In good years, I typically come out of the water in the top 25% for both age group and overall, with less gas used. To get to under an hour in an IM or the top 10% in any swim segment is not a reasonable or smart strategy in my case.
I was just thinking that we hadn’t had one of Steven’s “I did IMLP in 10:15 on six hours of training, total, since the previous Christmas” posts in a long time. Snow must be off the roads in Lake Placid already.
Ive just been sitting in my hole, not doing training getting frostbite. I was actually very suprized by a recent win, after having about a month off from anything due to the kids getting sick, then we got sick, then the kids got sick, then we got sick…
I think that what we need is ANTI-EPIC training for the rest of us that cant seem to get out at all. Hope you are doing well Art. The snow has almost melted, and we can at least get out on the road to run now. Take care, and dont forget to give me a ring when you are in the area.