Struggling with hiring a coach

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m 46 and am new at doing 70.3 races (only done 4 total over the last two seasons). Hope is to do my first marathon and soon enough my first full distance tri.

I’ve done well enough at my qualifying races to get a spot to St. George the last two years. I followed the same stock plan for all 4 of these races, but got better and better over time (likely a result more time and natural progress versus the plan making me better, but the plan didnt hurt). At st. george, I jumped from 65% in my age group in 2021 to 21% in 2022.

I want to build on this success and am setting lofty goals for myself over the next few years (top 5 at a big 70.3 event/IM event, BQ, KQ).

My main question is, can a coach improve my run and bike times substantially versus what I have been doing? Its hard for me to justify using my minimal disposable income for this cost.

For perspective, I would have needed to be 13 minutes faster at my qualifying race to finish in 5th place versus 14th.

Swim is my biggest limiter, so lots to gain there (improved 12 minutes at WC’s and was still in 75%ile of swim), but pretty sure a tri coach aint helping with that too much.
So spending some money on swim help is likely worth it.

I made big gains on bike and run this year too, (not just at WC’s) so I’m guessing that incremental gains in those disciplines will be harder to do on my own. But I also think that there is still room for big gains on bike since I am so new to it.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Also, what are typical costs for coaching? Only one i looked at (well known coaching group) was cost prohibitive. Do tri teams provide coaching?

Thanks!

2

I’ve done well enough at my qualifying races to get a spot to St. George the last two years. I followed the same stock plan for all 4 of these races, but got better and better over time (likely a result more time and natural progress versus the plan making me better, but the plan didnt hurt). I jumped from 65% in my age group in 2021 to 21% in 2022.

Thanks!

There are a few coaches on here, so me saying you might not need a coach won’t go down well! But really if you’re not struggling with motivation there are some great plans on Training Peaks that will help you achieve your goals. The one I am on has regularly testing, such as FTP and CSS tests so you can see how your training is improving. And some of them allow you to email the coach who designed the program. I’ve had coaches before and it’s been good, but not really seen value for money. You are paying a lot for what amounted to the occasional email/phone-call.

3

I hired a coach and for the 5-6 yrs I was coached it was by far the best decision I made. They brought me consistency, which kept me healthy, and ultimately led me to qualify for Kona before the pandemic hit. It was the best investment I made in this sport and I would do it again without any hesitation.

4

Just want to say that you don’t need a coach to accomplish those goals. I’m not against coaches, I just don’t think they are mandatory for a variety of reasons. A lot of really great athletes were self-coached. Could they have been better with a coach, maybe, but I’ve seen enough examples of athletes doing well without a coach to make me comfortable in saying you don’t NEED a coach to accomplish these goals.

5

I’d say you’ve answered your own questions. It seems your swim comparatively sucks. Get to swim groups, get specific swim feedback from people who know what they are on about.

Also remember that endurance sport needs consistency over time. The guys at the front will more than likely have years and years on training, and racing. It takes time and patience to improve. Enjoy the process.

6

I’m 46 and am new at doing 70.3 races (only done 4 total over the last two seasons). Hope is to do my first marathon and soon enough my first full distance tri.

I’ve done well enough at my qualifying races to get a spot to St. George the last two years. I followed the same stock plan for all 4 of these races, but got better and better over time (likely a result more time and natural progress versus the plan making me better, but the plan didnt hurt). I jumped from 65% in my age group in 2021 to 21% in 2022.

I want to build on this success and am setting lofty goals for myself over the next few years (top 5 at a big 70.3 event/IM event, BQ, KQ).

My main question is, can a coach improve my run and bike times substantially versus what I have been doing? Its hard for me to justify using my minimal disposable income for this cost.

For perspective, I would have needed to be 13 minutes faster at my qualifying race to finish in 5th place versus 14th.

Swim is my biggest limiter, so lots to gain there (improved 12 minutes at WC’s and was still in 75%ile of swim), but pretty sure a tri coach aint helping with that too much.
So spending some money on swim help is likely worth it.

I made big gains on bike and run this year too, (not just at WC’s) so I’m guessing that incremental gains in those disciplines will be harder to do on my own. But I also think that there is still room for big gains on bike since I am so new to it.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Also, what are typical costs for coaching? Only one i looked at (well known coaching group) was cost prohibitive. Do tri teams provide coaching?

Thanks!

Honestly, buy a couple of good coaching books and educate yourself.

Join a masters swim group and join some group rides.

A remote coach can’t see your stroke and won’t push you like a group ride will. Plus you will learn from other athletes you meet.

7

you don’t NEED a coach… you possibly need coaching on race execution, how to ride the bike to set up your best run… you also need to find a local swim coach to work with over the winter. I’d say 1x/week for 10-15 weeks. Finding the right stroke with someone that can really help you do it, along with lap time with swim groups will help you find those missing minutes. you don’t need to be THE fastest swimming in your AG, but you need to be in the top 1/3.
how about transitions? I saw a guy win his AG once who was beaten in S B & R times by #2, but beat #2 in transitions… have to be in the top 10 times for your AG in transitions.
as for training plans. I personally feel that if you are running and biking the time per week that most coaches RX, doing more of these types of intervals vs those types, don’t matter.
look up plans on TP by a guy named phil mosley. a friend has done very well with those (he just did Kona this year and 70.3 WC last year) It’s a nominal plan, but he also has a community online you can join for a nominal fee and get more feedback…

also, you don’t need substantial improvement,(you defined 13 minutes) you need to pick up little bits here and there, and then have an incredibly well executed race to get the KQ… I would bet that riding the bike 5 minutes slower will earn you 10 minutes on the run…

8

Seems like you are doing quite well on your own, so I wouldn’t bother with a coach. Some coach offer consulting sessions that are basically reviewing the plan/ideas you are proposing. Maybe this is something you could consider. Definitely join structured swimming coaching.

Regardless of whether you get a consulting session or full time, quality and experience matter. Like any hobby, career, etc. beware of the coaches with very little actual full time coaching experience unless they work for a more experienced coach. Particularly, worry about folks that decided to become a coach after they self coached to sport “success” themselves. Being a great athlete does not immediately make you a coach. An extreme example: my former club once hired an Olympic level runner to coach one of the winter track sessions. Amazing athlete and person, but this person simply had no clue how to coach.

9

A remote coach can’t see your stroke and won’t push you like a group ride will. Plus you will learn from other athletes you meet.

This is why I’m against remote swim coaching. For people with poor mechanics, I recommend a person on deck. Not Masters, a hired swim coach. If you just do an online program you’ll be limited in progress.

For biking, the strongest I ever got was off a Trainerroad program. But it also put me in a hole because it just keeps pushing higher and higher. I tried several coaches but just went backwards in performance. The best Ironman times, Kona qual) were using online Endure IQ programs which include monthly webinars with Dan Plews answering any questions we have. That’s what I continue to use today. But, I already have my Swim, Bike and Run mechanics down solid. You need good mechanics for remote programs to be effective (In My OpInOn)

10

Thanks all for the replies.

Swim is a no doubt a bout it need in terms of having an on deck coach/video analysis. The 12 minutes I dropped in the swim, I credit to joining a masters group this year. Minimal to no coaching but i was swimming more volume than what my plan called for.

Its probably having someone look at my mechanics on the bike and run that I am most interested in because i have no real idea if I am doing anything that can be changed/improved.

Race plan execution is an interesting idea too, as its hard for me to wrap my head around going slower on the bike to go faster on the run and yet i get that knowing how i feel coming off the bike in races.

11

Obviously, you’re somewhat athletic and in good fitness. If you’re in the 75% on the swim. You can probably save 5-10mins on a 70.3 without a coach or swimming with a group. I’m limited on funds also, so I watched the Effortless Swimming YT channel. I followed the drills and with only two swims a week around 2-3k per swim, I am now in the tip 25%-25% of all competitors and I’m 62 years old.

You need to be very comfortable in the water and be one of those athletes that can learn by feel or have a friend video some of your swims.

I’d try this for six months and see what happens. If you save 5-10 mins in the swim and are competitive in the transitions, then you only need another 5-10mins between the bike and run.

12

I’m in a similar boat but with different strengths weaknesses. That said:

  1. Masters program will be your best bag for your buck. It’s a coach and a group in the area you have the most room for improvement.

  2. Learn about gear and how to be aero. A coach won’t do that for you anyway. As others have said, a plan will get you about as far as coach. I agree especially if you learn about how to train. There’s not a ton of technique to riding a bike. Be aero and pedal smooth(that’ll be $200.00 :slight_smile: ).

  3. Running is a place where the right workouts matter. But at 46, physiologically it’s uphill. Also, given 1 and 2, it tough to pay hundreds a month for a running coach.

I’d love to hear what you decide and how it works.

Personally, if I could hire a tri coach to write a run program monthly in the context of the rest for a discount off a full month to moth, I’d do it. 1/3 price for 1/3 of the workouts?

13

maybe you get a coach, maybe you don’t.

What i would recommend is getting video of your swim stroke and sending it to SnappingT or Masteringflow.

I’ve had athletes use both this past year and both made gains. There are + and - to each when compared to each other yet each is exceptional and my athletes saw improvements.

As you know, with swimming it’s a sport where you always have to work on reinforcing those gains

As for your main question, “can a coach improve my run and bike times substantially versus what I have been doing?”, the answer is maybe. The right coach can, the wrong coach won’t.

When it comes to cost, some of those big groups are much more expensive than smaller groups, single coach businesses. They have more overhead to maintain, some wrote books, or had 1 or 2 high profiles athletes and charge a premium even though the body of their work isn’t any better than other coaches/groups.

If you go the coaching route I’d advise you to talk to several coaches. As importantly talk to a few of their athletes to see what they think

hope that helps. (you can always PM me if you want to talk)

14

I am likely to remain self-coached for now. Maybe when i turn my attention to a full distance tri, i may reconsider. I may also give EnduranceIQ a try. Or maybe a paid version of 80/20. (thats the stock plan i followed the last 2 years and had good success with and I like the coaches)

My hesitation in hiring an individual coach is what DesertDude said about getting the wrong coach. Know lots of folks who have had bad experience with the coach they hired. Not sure i have the time or energy to speak with lots of people about their coaches to try to find the right one. Plus, its probably like any teacher. Some will respond well to their style/methods and some wont, so tough for me to know even with lots of great reports from people.

Thats a tough and costly and even possibly lost year.

15

My hesitation in hiring an individual coach is what DesertDude said about getting the wrong coach…
Thats a tough and costly and even possibly lost year.

I think you can narrow it down to 2 or 3 and then talk to them. You’re going to know within about 5-10 min if they are the coach for you.

For instance if you want to step up in distance and try for Kona you don’t hire coach XYZ who specializes in getting people across the finish line while being a rah rah you can do it coach. It’s not going to help you accomplish what you want. You find coaches who are performance oriented and have a track record of getting people across the line.

If you just want to finish an IM you’re not going to seek out a coach that specializes in taking athletes from that 15-20-30th place in their AG to the top 5. It’s going to be too demanding for your needs

Often in the screening process one or both parties may realize it’s not a fit. Even if it’s not a fit, a good coach will help you succeed where as a coach with a low skill set may not. The better/more skillful the coach the more likely you are to succeed even if the fit isn’t perfect.

Hope that helps

16

I am likely to remain self-coached for now. Maybe when i turn my attention to a full distance tri, i may reconsider. I may also give EnduranceIQ a try. Or maybe a paid version of 80/20. (thats the stock plan i followed the last 2 years and had good success with and I like the coaches)

My hesitation in hiring an individual coach is what DesertDude said about getting the wrong coach. Know lots of folks who have had bad experience with the coach they hired. Not sure i have the time or energy to speak with lots of people about their coaches to try to find the right one. Plus, its probably like any teacher. Some will respond well to their style/methods and some wont, so tough for me to know even with lots of great reports from people.

Thats a tough and costly and even possibly lost year.

off course coaches have styles and methods but a good coach will also adapt their style and methods to the need of the athlete.
where i struggle is you feel you had success with your old plan and like the coaches … why would you not ask one of those coaches if they want to coach you. seems like their style seems to agree with you. so why not have a chat with them… personally i dont like when something gets a label on the box such as 80 20 but if you like it why not.

17

I read all the books, looked at tons of canned training plans and then self coached for many years. I was working my butt off and was stuck as a MOP. There was no motivation problem, I was working very hard and learning everything I could about training but it wasn’t doing any good.

Out of desperation, I started working with Mike Plumb / Tripower. He made some changes to my training and now I’m placing at every small, local race that I run. Since I was already working very hard, the changes were not drastic.

Given what you wrote, I think it is a no-brainer … go with Mike Plumb for tri training and then see an in person swim coach for a few months.

18

If I was looking for a tri coach again, Mike would be at the top of my list.

19

I sent you a DM. I think our situations are very similar. I was a middle of the pack swimmer with no swim background. Lessons from a former college coach and masters 3x/week and I’ve been PR’ing the 1.2 mile swim legs of HIM’s now in my last 3 races this summer.

20

Coaching works well for some and not for others. Early on in my triathlon career I had coaching for three seasons. I learned a lot, and had some pretty good success. I was able to take the knowledge I learned and apply it to my training. The most important lesson I learned was to listen to my body.

While being coached, at times I felt like I had to do a given workout. On two occasions, I tried to push through a ‘niggle’ to finish a session and ended up with an injury.

I recently began coaching earlier this year, and one of the thing I really emphasize to my athletes is to listen to their bodies and adjust or cut a session if something doesn’t feel right. This is different than just feeling tired or that a workout is challenging - there will be lots that are challenging, but doable.

It’s been very rewarding to see my athletes have success in my first season. It’s honestly more rewarding than being successful myself. It’s also hard when you feel an athlete is ready for a race, but something goes wrong. Being hit by a car or getting ill heading into a race certainly doesn’t help, but having an athlete KQ and many set multiple PR’s has been awesome!

As a first year coach, I initially wanted to offer three months of free coaching to learn a bit and give some athletes some decent sessions. I posted here on ST, and had a whole bunch of folks contact me. After three months, I felt I wasn’t ‘ready’ as a coach, so I extended the free coaching to the season, then again extended it to the end of 2022. I am now finally starting to understand the ins and outs, as well as the software I use. It’s been a fun journey, and one I look forward to continuing in the future.