It was a speed day for my and I’m early in my season so I don’t need comments about the volume.
Here’s my dilemma: during the 200’s(especially) during the last 2, I have to really struggle to keep my form, and even with focus it’s hard due to being tired(which is obvious and to be expected).
To counter act this, I’ve been thinking about doing the 200’s s the 1st main set and the 150’s as the 2nd; this isn’t just for the above example, but in general for longer intervals before shorter intervals.
Normally my speed days consists of 50’s, 75’s or 100’s, but occasionally I like to stretch it out a little.
As for the rest interval, I gave myself 20 seconds for the 150’s and had to go with 25-30 seconds for the 200’s. I feel like I could maybe manage 20 seconds for all of them if I did the 200’s 1st
Here’s my dilemma: during the 200’s(especially) during the last 2, I have to really struggle to keep my form, and even with focus it’s hard due to being tired(which is obvious and to be expected).
It sounds like you are doing it right to me. If it doesn’t hurt (especially on a speed day), then you are doing something wrong.
Lots, wtf being one of them. But here are a few thoughts to help steer you towards the right path.
150,200’s really it’s not speed as noted by others. That being the case you’d probably would have been better off just doing 8-1x X 150 or 200 and manipulating the rest interval if you had too much or too little rest, the speed you are swimming them at or both to achieve the desired training effect.
Second 1400 isn’t really long enough of a main set. Sure it’s better then nothing or 1000 but shoot for 2-3k for the main set.
Third speed sets should be just that. Designed for raw all out speed, but as a triathlete, you don’t need that too much. It really depends upon how you prefer to open up the swim leg.
actually, I summed up my dilemma as- is there any big difference b/w doing longer intervals before shorter one’s and vice-versa. volume is kind of irrelevant to that question
is there any big difference b/w doing longer intervals before shorter one’s and vice-versa.
But, as noted above, you’re not doing long intervals or short intervals. You’re doing two interval lengths that are barely different. And, if I had to guess, you’re probably doing them at just barely different paces. If you want to swim 150s/200s, fine. Pick one to do. Breaking it up into two different sets (that are pretty much the same) is really just making it look fancy on paper.
I’d also agree with the above that if it was really a speed workout you’re after, stick to interval lengths of <100s and make them truly fast. (Hint: If you can do them on 20s rest, you’re not doing them fast enough.)
But… I always work my way from slower to faster in my workouts (swimming, biking & running), if I’m going to be working different paces/efforts. I think there are two benefits (although I have no scientific evidence to back up either)…
You’ll be good & warmed up by the time you get to the harder efforts. (Possibly less chance of injury.)
It teaches your body that it needs to keep the effort up as fatigue sets in.
I always work my way from slower to faster in my workouts …2. It teaches your body that it needs to keep the effort up as fatigue sets in.
If it’s truly speed development you are after, then why try to develop it after you are fatigued and are unable to put out maximal or near maximal velocities?
I personally like to mix up the the long and short efforts. Keeps the workout interesting - mentally.
Given the volume of the workout you listed and wanting to work on speed, I would do a work out like this:
(I am assuming 600 - 800 warm up and drills before starting this set)
4 rounds of the following - No extra rest between each round
3 x 50 FAST (on interval that gives :30 to :45 rest)
200 Pull - Interval that gives about :30 rest - Use a Breathing pattern of every 2 strokes, every 5 strokes
I apologize if I misunderstood your comment on volume. I thought you meant you did not want any comments on the volume you are swimming but wanted an answer to on the difference of losing your form on the last two.
So my answer was based that the volume you are doing, its understandable you are losing form…My apologies
i was trying to get a more general answer, which is why I ended the post w/
“this isn’t just for the above example, but in general for longer intervals before shorter intervals”
I think that trying to provide a general answer to this question is counterproductive without knowing what your goals are, what your current level is, and understanding why your form fell apart for the last couple of intervals. Context is important. Sometimes you put the fast stuff first, sometimes you do it last. I still think that you dont really appear to understand what true speedwork is though (most triathletes don’t, so please don’t take that personally).
If it’s truly speed development you are after, then why try to develop it after you are fatigued and are unable to put out maximal or near maximal velocities?
Good question, and the very reason I put the disclaimer on my post that I did.
I like the way you think. I coach college, masters and novice kids. I coach a lot. I swim masters. I swam club and on the college level.
Over the years I have noticed there are two types of coaches in masters swimming. The ones who have a feel for the workout and the group in the water and the ones who do not have a feel at all for a workout or the group in the water.
The unfeeling coach writes a workout in such a way that it feels as if a swimmer doing his workout is dropped down an elevator shaft. The coach writes a workout that could look like this: 4x150 and then 4x200 rest :20 between. No thought. No purpose. No real creativity. Pure boredom.
The feeling coach writes a CIRCULAR workout. One that starts at point A goes all the way to point D and back to point A. Along the way there is interest and variety for the swimmer and a unique way to swim to fitness and race shape. Example of a CIRCULAR workout:
After about an 500 to 800yd warm up,
DO this four times through:
3x50 rest :15 (2x50 swim freestyle moderate, 1x50 kick on back)
1x200 rest :30, swim freestyle fast from the flags to the wall at each end (about 10 yds total effort on each wall), the middle of the pool is EZ swim
4x25 rest :10, build speed (effort on last 4 strokes)
1x50 total recovery super EZ, no interval
Trust me, you or your swimmers will thank you for this circular workout.