Strava Segment - 1 minute effort strategy

Triathlon Forum
1

I’d like to improve my time on a Strava segment that some friends of mine and I compete on. We’re all within a few seconds on this segment. The segment takes all of us roughly 1 minute (1:02 is my current PR)
The segment starts as a light hill, flattens out, then goes into a steep hill for the last 1/3rd of the segment. I’d like suggestions on effort level.

Right now I hold back a bit on the first 1/3, hold only a tiny bit for the second 1/3, and go all out for the 1/3. I do this so I have energy to go really hard for the last 20 seconds. Would I be better off just going 100% right from the start? My final 20 seconds will suffer of course, but would I be better off overall? No matter what strategy I use I always end up totally dead at the finish.

tl;dr: What’s the best strategy for the highest average power in a 1 minute effort?

Thanks,
CBR

2

have you tried putting the segment into BBS as a course? you could then play with your power to see which parts of the segment will save you the most time with added power

3

I have a very similar segment near my house (although it’s 1:30 duration) that I tried over and over to get. The best result I found was to go fairly hard for that first uphill bit then back off a bit for the flat and then unload for the last steep part. I think maintaining momentum over that first hill (I could get a decent run at it so I hit it with speed) was key for me.

ETA, I got a faster result with a lower AP overall this way (same day, same wind conditions etc)

4

Are you interested in beating your friends up the hill mano a mano, or winning the strava segment on your own?

If it’s the latter, anything besides a long sustained climb is a contest for who had the bigger tailwind or better draft.

Also, for a ~60sec segment, you’re in the realm of minor GPS inaccuracy and strava’s buffer (the “strava line,” if you will), so you can likely put in a bigger effort and back off many meters short of the actual segment end and still have it register.

5

tl;dr: What’s the best strategy for the highest average power in a 1 minute effort?
Thanks,
CBR

Best strategy for highest average 1min power is to figure out what your highest 1min average power is and do that throughout the entire segment.

6

tl;dr: What’s the best strategy for the highest average power in a 1 minute effort?
Thanks,
CBR

Best strategy for highest average 1min power is to figure out what your highest 1min average power is and do that throughout the entire segment.

What he said. Although that’s almost impossible to actually execute.

7

Are you interested in beating your friends up the hill mano a mano, or winning the strava segment on your own?

If it’s the latter, anything besides a long sustained climb is a contest for who had the bigger tailwind or better draft.

Also, for a ~60sec segment, you’re in the realm of minor GPS inaccuracy and strava’s buffer (the “strava line,” if you will), so you can likely put in a bigger effort and back off many meters short of the actual segment end and still have it register.

Can you elaborate on this last point? If I put in a huge effort, say at the 45 second mark until the 55 second mark, then completely let off, it will register as a 55 second segment?

To answer your first question, I do the segment solo, but I believe my friend does it with a few mates. I just assume he doesn’t draft, but I guess there’s no way to tell for sure

8

Can you elaborate on this last point? If I put in a huge effort, say at the 45 second mark until the 55 second mark, then completely let off, it will register as a 55 second segment?

To answer your first question, I do the segment solo, but I believe my friend does it with a few mates. I just assume he doesn’t draft, but I guess there’s no way to tell for sure

I’m not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…

GPS is inaccurate, right? The raw data kinda bounces all over the place, and it’s the responsibility of the algorithm to filter it and make it meaningful. So for Strava to have a rewarding user experience, they have to be sure that if you ride over what you think is a segment, it has to register that segment regardless of how bouncy the GPS data may be. Because if you smash yourself over “BFF Hillclimb” and get home and haven’t recorded a time over that segment, you’ll be angry and cancel your premium membership 'cause it sucks, right?

As such, there’s a “Strava line.” Imagine a winding sidewalk alongside a straight road. Obviously it’ll take you longer to run the sidewalk, but if you run the road, it’ll still give you credit for “CBR’s Fave Sidewalk.” As there’s no honor among thieves, it’s a reasonable assumption that on hotly-contested segments, people have taken advantage of the Strava line and cut corners.

Another aspect to this is that there’s a buffer for segment start and end points. I do not know, but suspect, that this buffer is larger than the tolerance afforded for GPS inaccuracy…I think it’s on the order of 50m. So if your friends have created a segment from exactly the center of this intersection to exactly the center of that intersection, you’ll likely be “on” from the start of this intersection to the start of that intersection. In other words, you’re not yet going hard enough when Strava says you’re “on,” and you’re still going needlessly hard after Strava says you’re “off.”

So you can play with shifting your effort a couple seconds to the early side (obviously, it’s a distance thing, not a time thing, but same same) and see if that has an effect on your segment time. Make sense?

9

tl;dr: What’s the best strategy for the highest average power in a 1 minute effort?

Thanks,
CBR

It’s one minute, man. Go do it a few times during a ride.

5-6 x 1 min with 10-12 min recoveries is an excellent workout. And then you can try multiple ways. That workout, plus 6-10 x 30s all-out with 8-12 min recoveries will likely let you take more time off that segment than pacing alone.

But anyway, once you figure out your pacing go back another day and take it. One minute efforts take a bit of practice to get right.

10

Can you elaborate on this last point? If I put in a huge effort, say at the 45 second mark until the 55 second mark, then completely let off, it will register as a 55 second segment?

To answer your first question, I do the segment solo, but I believe my friend does it with a few mates. I just assume he doesn’t draft, but I guess there’s no way to tell for sure

I’m not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…

GPS is inaccurate, right? The raw data kinda bounces all over the place, and it’s the responsibility of the algorithm to filter it and make it meaningful. So for Strava to have a rewarding user experience, they have to be sure that if you ride over what you think is a segment, it has to register that segment regardless of how bouncy the GPS data may be. Because if you smash yourself over “BFF Hillclimb” and get home and haven’t recorded a time over that segment, you’ll be angry and cancel your premium membership 'cause it sucks, right?

As such, there’s a “Strava line.” Imagine a winding sidewalk alongside a straight road. Obviously it’ll take you longer to run the sidewalk, but if you run the road, it’ll still give you credit for “CBR’s Fave Sidewalk.” As there’s no honor among thieves, it’s a reasonable assumption that on hotly-contested segments, people have taken advantage of the Strava line and cut corners.

Another aspect to this is that there’s a buffer for segment start and end points. I do not know, but suspect, that this buffer is larger than the tolerance afforded for GPS inaccuracy…I think it’s on the order of 50m. So if your friends have created a segment from exactly the center of this intersection to exactly the center of that intersection, you’ll likely be “on” from the start of this intersection to the start of that intersection. In other words, you’re not yet going hard enough when Strava says you’re “on,” and you’re still going needlessly hard after Strava says you’re “off.”

So you can play with shifting your effort a couple seconds to the early side (obviously, it’s a distance thing, not a time thing, but same same) and see if that has an effect on your segment time. Make sense?

Great explanation - thanks for that!

11

tl;dr: What’s the best strategy for the highest average power in a 1 minute effort?

Thanks,
CBR

It’s one minute, man. Go do it a few times during a ride.

5-6 x 1 min with 10-12 min recoveries is an excellent workout. And then you can try multiple ways. That workout, plus 6-10 x 30s all-out with 8-12 min recoveries will likely let you take more time off that segment than pacing alone.

But anyway, once you figure out your pacing go back another day and take it. One minute efforts take a bit of practice to get right.

Fair point about practicing it or doing repeats. I’ll definitely try that.

12

no. you put the power where it has the greatest impact on average speed. even power on uneven course is not the fastest pacing.

13

Have you used the Strava comparison feature to see how your attempt(s) compare to those with faster times? This might provide some insight on a different approach.

14

Have you used the Strava comparison feature to see how your attempt(s) compare to those with faster times? This might provide some insight on a different approach.

I didn’t know about that feature. I’ll have to look into it!

15

Stay seated at max 1:30 power for the first 2 parts, stand up and bury yourself for the last steep part
.

16

no. you put the power where it has the greatest impact on average speed. even power on uneven course is not the fastest pacing.

In general I would agree, but for a segment this short, where you can carry momentum into a 20-25 second steep hill, I’d pace the power more evenly.

If this was a segment where it was super steep for the first 45 seconds, immediately went back downhill the last 15 seconds, I would agree you pace it differently and go much harder in the beginning.

17

Get someone to motorpace you until the steep part :wink:
.

18

assuming you do not want to use a big tailwind day or somebody to lead you out. That is how nmost KOMS are set.

  1. Hit the segment at max speed, so it is really a 1:15 effort.
  2. Hold your best 1.5 minute power for 30 seconds and stay aero AF.
  3. Unless you are going less than 20mph a the end stay aero and try to hold your best 1min power plus 20-30w and hopefully you will blow up on the line.

You will learn that the highest watts will not be the fastest. Got to be smooth and still.

19

assuming you do not want to use a big tailwind day or somebody to lead you out. That is how nmost KOMS are set.

  1. Hit the segment at max speed, so it is really a 1:15 effort.
  2. Hold your best 1.5 minute power for 30 seconds and stay aero AF.
  3. Unless you are going less than 20mph a the end stay aero and try to hold your best 1min power plus 20-30w and hopefully you will blow up on the line.

You will learn that the highest watts will not be the fastest. Got to be smooth and still.

This.
You need to already be at top speed heading into the start of the segment.
Assuming the opening hill isn’t too steep, you should be aero (AF) all the way into the bottom of that last hill.
If you start to bog down on the steeper part, stand and hammer with whatever you have left - to the segment finish and beyond for a bit - you never really know for sure where the GPS “thinks” you are, so make sure you stay on the gas for at least another :05 seconds beyond what you think is the finish.

It certainly wouldn’t hurt if you went for it on a day when there’s not a headwind.
Warm & humid air is faster than cooler and dry.
Wear snug kit. No flapping clothing.

20

The segment is too short for rationing out the power according to gradient. You have to go into the red and tolerate some pain. You will never make up the time you lost by saving for the end.

Best way to do it: Take as much speed as possible into the base. Spin at 120 rpm for as long as you can (10-20 secs). When you feel you’re starting to lose momentum or get bogged down then shift to a higher gear and sprint like heck for 10-20 secs. The last 30 seconds will be pure pain. Alternating between sitting and standing. Churning at 70 rpm and seated spinning at 90 rpm. hauling on the bars like a rower and heaving torso up and down and side to side like you’re Froome’s love child. Just fool the body into giving up some more work, gut it out, and deal with the pain later.