I have bike raced for maybe 30 years, done a lot of running, etc etc. I’m ok and was able to mix it up in the pro 1-2 into my mid 40’s, at least at the local level. Now I just suck. Now I’m 52 and I’m wondering if I’m training correctly or just making myself tired and slow.
In a typical week, I train 13-15 hours, a couple runs but mostly bike. I do one 3 hour endurance ride and 2 or perhaps 3 rides with more quality, i.e. lately once a week v02’s a 3-5 mins and some anaerobic intervals of 15-60 secs, maybe a third tempo ride or maybe not, the rest are just riding around in the hills. I generally train 6 or 7 days a week, but have 1 or 2 easy days when I just plod around or ride an hour.
I like to ride my bike and train hard. I want to be able to do well in shorter races of under 2 hours, MTB races and cyclocross.
Anyway, here’s my question. I was toying with the idea of cutting back to maybe 8 hours and taking a couple days off the bike. On my rides then I would hopefully be better rested and be able to maintain more quality on my bread and butter days. I guess I could even incorporate more quality into the long ride, now I just go tour around in the hills.
I would not have trained like this 10 years ago, but I’m starting to wonder if I’d get more results with taking some days off. Curious what others in my age bracket think.
The literature suggests doing more polarized training, http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/whats-the-best-training-program-for-veteran-runners
“I was surprised to see such enormous gains by the polarized trainers even though they were used to doing tons of training already. The message seems to be that veteran athletes should focus their training on a mix of long, slow training combined with high-intensity workouts. So train in the extremes, and avoid the middle-intensity zone.”
So that would be worth a try…
Joan Benoit at 50 set a woman’s 50-over marathon world record of 2:50. That’s about half-an-hour slower than she was running in her prime.
So at 50-plus I think we have to expect to be much slower and more tired than in the good years…
I’ve been training and racing endurance sports since the late 60s. Tried a lot of things over the past five years since reaching 50, none of which have worked… more rest makes me slower and more tired, but then so does more training…
I am 45-49 and have given this some thought the past few years and changed my training a good bit given the changes in my body as it ages. Pre-kids, I did halves and full IM’s, now just doing sprints on 4-10 hours of training a week and really love it. I like to be competitive in local sprints, and I’ll go to Nationals every few years. I’ve been pleased with my results.
One change is very little base to no base work. I have hunch that my base can only be built up so much, at least the base I need for my kind of training and racing. And this is more to your question, I went straight into threshold and VO2 max stuff on the bike and run when I ramped things up in February or so. Very little slow stuff on the bike and run. It was a welcome change to the training I usually do, so far so good.
As I age, the soreness lingers, recovery takes longer. I ran into some back problems last year that I neglected until I had a super poor race; swim and bike was great, I could not stand up straight after I dismounted, and went on to shuffle the 5km. I landed in PT to work things out, and came out on the other side with a new respect for strength and flexibility.
Strength training is a highly debated topic around here, I won’t get on a podium, but it sure has worked for me these past several months, at least so far. And like shortening my base period, it is a change in the routine, which I like. The past couple of years, I’ve done a lot of reading on functional strength training, Vern Gambetta and co., and since my back issues, I’ve phased this into my training (more in winter, less now) and love it. Does it increase performance? Consistent training turns into performance. I think a stronger body has allowed me to avoid injury and train well given the time I’ve got, and that’s good enough for me.
57, been racing 16 years, retired at 52. Never was great at anything.
I train 10-15 hours a week, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I run 18 to 27 miles a week, 3 days a week, all LSD, with a big
hill 3 times per outing. (I believe lots of hill work with LSD running, all cross country, has helped me with run speed)
I use my bike trainer with powercranks basically 12 months a year, 7 days a week, for 1 hour. I swim 3 days a week from April to October.
I had my best season ever last year.
I never open up unless I am in a race.
I figure it is better to get to the starting line 95% trained and healthy.
I see so many once they get into their 50’s getting hurt.
I see performance of most starting to drop off mid to late 50’s.
You can look at the USAT rankings to see this data for the drop in quantity and quality.
I believe that by just staying in shape with training, and ONLY doing my speed work in races, has been a key to my success and staying healthy.
The literature suggests doing more polarized training, http://m.runnersworld.com/…-for-veteran-runners
“I was surprised to see such enormous gains by the polarized trainers even though they were used to doing tons of training already. The message seems to be that veteran athletes should focus their training on a mix of long, slow training combined with high-intensity workouts. So train in the extremes, and avoid the middle-intensity zone.”
So that would be worth a try…
…
thanks, that was along the lines of what I was thinking. So I wonder what 26% high intensity mean, is that the pure work? So, for say a 10 hour week is that like 150 minutes of high intensity? That’s a lot when you figure those are all work segments of a minute or less.
I have really been enjoying using a computer ergometer more for these type of workouts.
Is two days off per week just over the top? I have not taken that much rest ever unless I was sick. I do plan to do some strength and flexibility work on those days.
Maybe I’m overdoing the easy? But that polarized talks about doing a good bit of “junk” miles while many other coaches say don’t bother, the hay is in the barn after 30 years, or it’s not. So what does a body do the day after these 30x1 min workouts?
You can’t stack two days of those on top of the other.
Anyway, here’s my question. I was toying with the idea of cutting back to maybe 8 hours and taking a couple days off the bike. On my rides then I would hopefully be better rested and be able to maintain more quality on my bread and butter days.
Makes sense but I wouldn’t add quality to the long ride. I definitely take longer to recover at age 55.
When you say you suck, you might just be too hard on yourself. I did a 5K last weekend and dueled with a 12 year old girl. When I compared our times via the Runners World age-graded calculator I was surprised to find out that a 12 year old girl is supposed to run faster than a 55 year old man. That was a surprise.
I started a thread the other day about being 50 and wondering how much intensity I can take via Bike/run…another important factor is keeping good body composition…I am actually about 10 lbs less today at 50 (turn 50 June 10) that I was at 40, I believe I can still put up similar times. Whats funny is I am still improving the swim and the bike, its running hard that seems to be the one area that is suffering.
I also listen to my body…if I am training hard and crater during a workout I bag it and take a day off. I always seem to come back.
so what’s with the whole “little or no endurance work” in practice? I’m trying to wrap my mind around what a high intensity training week would look like. I googled around and did not find anything super helpful
Funny…my training week is like yours.
Run 18-25 miles and 3-4 days. 1 speed interval session
Swim 3-4 hours and 3-4 days. 1-2 speed interval sessions
Bike 5-7 hours and 3-5 days. TR and Sufferfest are good.
Using powertap and trainerroad for most training.
Total hours between 11-20 hours per week.
Listen to body and back off when needed.
Watch nutrition and eat clean.
Damn if I die young and I’m gonna be looking damn good.
57, been racing 16 years, retired at 52. Never was great at anything.
I train 10-15 hours a week, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I run 18 to 27 miles a week, 3 days a week, all LSD, with a big
hill 3 times per outing. (I believe lots of hill work with LSD running, all cross country, has helped me with run speed)
I use my bike trainer with powercranks basically 12 months a year, 7 days a week, for 1 hour. I swim 3 days a week from April to October.
I had my best season ever last year.
I never open up unless I am in a race.
I figure it is better to get to the starting line 95% trained and healthy.
I see so many once they get into their 50’s getting hurt.
I see performance of most starting to drop off mid to late 50’s.
You can look at the USAT rankings to see this data for the drop in quantity and quality.
I believe that by just staying in shape with training, and ONLY doing my speed work in races, has been a key to my success and staying healthy.
so what’s with the whole “little or no endurance work” in practice? I’m trying to wrap my mind around what a high intensity training week would look like. I googled around and did not find anything super helpful
My thought is that we need to do more anaerobic training. More weights, more sprints on the bike, in the water, on skis (for you and I) and sparingly on the run (sprint accelerations on grass). More rest, and less long stuff. We literally don’t have to go that long for events because we have a lifetime of endurance. The day in day out, week in week out endurance training really suppresses many hormones. Think about it this way…after long endurance training you feel flat and exhausted for the rest of life…after intense anaerobic training you feel sharp and honed for life. If you do too much of the former, without enough of the latter that can’t be a good thing. Humans are supposed to have a balance of aerobic an anaerobic capability. If you don’t exercise your anaerobic systems it will wane over time (use it or lose it). I am trying to lift 4-5 days per week, even if it is 10 minutes…10 minutes of anaerobic training is actually useful.
My thought is that we need to do more anaerobic training. More weights, more sprints on the bike, in the water, on skis (for you and I) and sparingly on the run (sprint accelerations on grass). More rest, and less long stuff. We literally don’t have to go that long for events because we have a lifetime of endurance. The day in day out, week in week out endurance training really suppresses many hormones. Think about it this way…after long endurance training you feel flat and exhausted for the rest of life…after intense anaerobic training you feel sharp and honed for life. If you do too much of the former, without enough of the latter that can’t be a good thing. Humans are supposed to have a balance of aerobic an anaerobic capability. If you don’t exercise your anaerobic systems it will wane over time (use it or lose it). I am trying to lift 4-5 days per week, even if it is 10 minutes…10 minutes of anaerobic training is actually useful.
good, i like that. what does the day between the two hard interval look like in that world? I have been conditioned forever that it’s a couple hours endurance in the hills, but maybe that’s just wasting my time–so what to do instead.
kind of interesting, my friend did this on road- off road sort of event yesterday. He trains very traditional on the bike, lots of volume, the 2x20’s all that. He’s been riding well this spring in the -1-2 group. He got second in the race yesterday, the guy who won is a 14 mins 5k kind of a runner and very good XC skier who mostly skis hard all winter, and very little cycling. Two very different training approaches, both had a good day.
Lee Trevino to an amateur golfer: “Take two weeks off, then quit.”
60 Minutes last night: “No benefit after 30 minutes of exercise, in fact, it’s bad for you.”
Be thankful that at your age (as in old as dirt) you are able to do anything and just follow your instincts.
You are in a slump, take it easy for a few days then hit it hard again. Go to the lake for a few days and chill out. (I used to go to the Jersey Shore, pre-Sandy.)
Do lots of easy slow stuff, with about 10% of your training at Z4-Z5.
This is interesting stuff and at 44 & slowing down (running especially), I am really paying attention.
… My Dad was still going strong running and did 38-39 min 10Ks ages 45 to 60, then slowed down a ton very quickly. By 65, he could barely run 50 & by 70 just hiking and 30 min. 5 Ks. … On the bike he improved a ton in his 60s (Death Ride at age 70) but is of course slowing now in his mid 70s …
… I train and run a bit with a guy who is generally mediocre runner (42-44 10K in his 50s) who recently improved a great deal past two seasons in his late 50s. He now swears by trail running (no particular pace) & 6-8 30-60 second all out hill sprints during his runs 2X a week with lots of recovery (3 minutes or so between sprints). The rest of his mileage is very mellow, but decent volume (35 mpw maybe) …
The message seems to be that veteran athletes should focus their training on a mix of long, slow training combined with high-intensity workouts. So train in the extremes, and avoid the middle-intensity zone.
My thought is that we need to do more anaerobic training. More weights, more sprints on the bike, in the water, on skis (for you and I) and sparingly on the run (sprint accelerations on grass). More rest, and less long stuff. We literally don’t have to go that long for events because we have a lifetime of endurance. The day in day out, week in week out endurance training really suppresses many hormones. Think about it this way…after long endurance training you feel flat and exhausted for the rest of life…after intense anaerobic training you feel sharp and honed for life. If you do too much of the former, without enough of the latter that can’t be a good thing. Humans are supposed to have a balance of aerobic an anaerobic capability. If you don’t exercise your anaerobic systems it will wane over time (use it or lose it). I am trying to lift 4-5 days per week, even if it is 10 minutes…10 minutes of anaerobic training is actually useful.
good, i like that. what does the day between the two hard interval look like in that world? I have been conditioned forever that it’s a couple hours endurance in the hills, but maybe that’s just wasting my time–so what to do instead.
kind of interesting, my friend did this on road- off road sort of event yesterday. He trains very traditional on the bike, lots of volume, the 2x20’s all that. He’s been riding well this spring in the -1-2 group. He got second in the race yesterday, the guy who won is a 14 mins 5k kind of a runner and very good XC skier who mostly skis hard all winter, and very little cycling. Two very different training approaches, both had a good day.
go figure
I kind of backed into this type of training with my business travel…when on the road, I do a lot of really high intensity short workouts and try to find hotels with weights and lift with dumbells and body weights in between. When I am back home, I do more traditional endurance stuff, but I still do a minimum of 3-4x 10-15 min weights per week and almost every workout of swim-bike-run has some high intensity 20-30 second intervals. One of my favourite swim workouts is sprint 25m- cruise/drill 25 m…sometimes I will do that for 20-30 min straight for the entire workout…or jog to the cinde track, accelerate the staightaway and jog/drill the turns. Mind you I am only 48 right now…massive delta between 48 and 52, but also massive delta between 48 and even 45. For example my times at St. Croix have dropped off 15 minute in half IM between 40-44 and my top end of 45-49 (I am “USAT 49 years old”) this year. Interestingly my swim times are the same and bike times are quite close as is bike FTP…it’s all down on the run.
I figure it is better to get to the starting line 95% trained and healthy.
I see so many once they get into their 50’s getting hurt.
I see performance of most starting to drop off mid to late 50’s.
You can look at the USAT rankings to see this data for the drop in quantity and quality.
I believe that by just staying in shape with training, and ONLY doing my speed work in races, has been a key to my success and staying healthy.
.
Lots of good stuff in here.
I’m 65, started running at 60, but been active all my life. My times are crap even in my AG, I’m hard pressed to stay in the upper 50%.
My tempo efforts, are at the end of or in the middle of, the exercise. My only long tempos, are races. I did 17 races last year. It’s too much race volume, but I had fun, look good, and feel wonderful that I can still do it.
Interestingly my swim times are the same and bike times are quite close as is bike FTP…it’s all down on the run.
yep, that’s my experience too… if I train harder/more at swim and bike, can still actually hold steady or improve a fraction, but there’s nothing to be done on the run…