From MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295430/ Text-messaging driver accused of hitting cyclist Victim died 2 days after accident; 17-year-old charged with misdemeanor
A misdemeanor for killing a cyclist in Colorado, to go along with the police wanting to limit cycling events to 2500 participants. Unfortunately, it sounds like Colorado is losing some of its “Green Party” type utopia reputation.
How is that petition doing?
I hope the victim’s loved ones will have the resources to remind the perpetrator every day of his life of what he did. Petitions won’t change a thing. Lawyers and money are the only things that count in this country.
I have contacted the late victims representatives and have made a donation in that regard (specifically asked for the money NOT to be used for some kind of memorial or for bicycle advocacy).
That Teen charged with only a misdemeanor charge is so plain wrong that it literally choked me…
You’re in Automobile country…car drivers are first class citizens, the rest are worthless…
Or at least, this is the impression given.
Big suprise. Murdering cyclists is almost legal in this country. I honestly don’t understand the point of wasting time and money on non-punishments.
What should the driver be charged with? Had the individual ran into another car and killed someone what would they be charged with? What if they weren’t screwing with the cell phone and still hit the cyclist?
I think we all believe that everyone should be better drivers and safer cyclist. However no one is safe and nearly every time a car and a bike come into high speed contact the bike will lose.
Everytime each one of heads out on the road we could be hit and killed. Everytime everyone of us gets into our car we could be hit and killed. In most cases the death is not intentional. Unless negligence or purpose is proven I have a hard time charging the driver that survives with murder for what, in many cases, boils down to a momentary laps of concentration.
~Matt
unintentional death due to dangerous driving sounds like grounds for a charge of manslaughter to me
but then, i’m no lawyer
(lawyers? please chime in)
Just to clarify, the petition reference was regarding the petition to block the police’s ability to limit cyclying events to 2500 participants.
I started this thread in part because I currently live in New Jersey, which is already a lost cause as far as cycling (and running for that matter) on open roads. Fortunately, I live very close to New York, and essentially do all my riding there with much better road conditions and less traffic.
I have never actually cycled in Colorado, but I always had the impression it was a much more outdoors activity friendly place for people who like to run and ride. I am hoping that, assuming that this true, Colorado doesn’t lose this aspect.
As far as the judicial aspects of this case, it is hard to determine a suitable penalty for a momentary lapse, although in this case it was a total lapse of judgement and awareness and clearly inexcusable, when the individual is only 17 and the judgement will follow him the rest of his life. However, a misdemeanor clearly misses the mark by any measurement, particularly in this case.
text messaging is not a momentary lapse. it takes intent, concentration and most importantly, time.
Unless negligence or purpose is proven … a momentary laps of concentration.
~Matt
Pretty much the textbook definition of negligence - a failure to act with an acceptable amount of care in a given situation
THIS fatalistic attitude displayed by you contributed a great deal to the current problem we have in our modern society.
Further comments on the scope and impact of this anti-social phenomenon should go in the lavender room, since it deals with religion and politics.
A car is a potentially lethal device. It’s negligent operation should be treated the same as the negligent use of a gun. I’m sure if the child who was text-messaging had been operating a firearm at the same time he was texting and negligently shot and killed somebody that he’d be charged with more than a misdemeanor. I think doing the same thing while operating a car should be treated just as harshly. I don’t understand why we think killing somebody with an automobile makes them less culpable.
In my state, the same crime is called “homicide by negligent operation of a motor vehicle” and is punishable by a max of 10 years in prison. If the conduct is “reckless” then the max penalty is 25 years.
The difference is basically that negligence is simple carelessness and recklessness involves a awareness of the risk and disregard for that risk.
No matter, it seems that the legislature in CO can make that penalty a bit tougher.
I saw this on the NBC crawl on the outside of my office building on the way to work. I about tripped over my own feet reading it.
In case you’re interested enough to make a phone call, apparently they’ve taken down the email address of the district attorney.
http://www.douglas.co.us/countyattorney/Additional_Judicial_Information.html
The 18th Judicial District Attorney is Carol Chambers, 7305 S. Potomac Street, #300, Englewood, Colorado, (303) 643-4500. Deputy District Attorneys for Douglas County have offices in the Robert A. Christensen Justice Center; (303) 814-7100.
Why would you contact the D.A. if the legislature sets penalties. Are you suggesting that a more serious crimes should have been charged? The reality is that this was a mistake and very few crimes exist that do not require some level of intent. It would be a huge stretch to call this reckless in the criminal legal context. A DA can only charge what they in good faith believe they can win at trial. The problem here, IMO, is a legislature that believes that this conduct - killing a person with your careless driving - is a misdemeanor. The problem is not the DA’s charging decision. Citizens in CO should be calling their legislators. That is where the change can be effected.
The question is would I change my stance if hit by a negligent driver?
I think we have to decide what is negligent? Glancing away to look at something that caught your eye? Texting, answering the cell phone, driving drunk?
Again not many, I’d say not any but that is an absolute, drivers have never lost concentration for a moment. If at that moment a cyclist happen to be in your path you would have hit them.
Do I think a teenager that hit a cyclist while screwing around or “texting” while driving should be punished? Certainly. Do I believe that they should spend 10 years in prison, certainly not.
Fatalistic attitude? Not really, realistic. It’s highly improbably that any driver can concentrate 100% on the task at hand. Not even the best drivers in the world can do this, we are indeed human after all.
~Matt
A good flogging, just a thought.
10 years in prison for looking away at your radio while driving seems harsh to me.
I guess this is why we give some leeway to judges in such cases.
I would not want a jury of my ST peers to be handing out my punishment if I had hit a cyclist for some level of minor negligence.
~Matt
“I think we have to decide what is negligent? Glancing away to look at something that caught your eye? Texting, answering the cell phone, driving drunk?”
But that’s simple, surely? Involuntary actions (glancing at something which catches your eye, closing your eyes against sun glare) are accidental. Voluntary and premeditated actions (talking on the phone, texting, choosing to drive drunk) are negligent.
I don’t see the problem, and I think that a hard line, while it will never happen, would be the best way to improve overall road safety.
10 years in prison for looking away at your radio while driving seems harsh to me.
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Don’t change the facts here just to sound dramatic. We are not talking about making looking at a radio a crime. The crime is the killing of the person.
Furthermore, looking at you radio is much more likely NOT to be considered negligent by a DA making a charging decision, and by a jury. We all do it, even the car manufacturers install radios in cars. This is text-messaging - a very different thing and much harder to argu that texting is “reasonable care” while driving.
Not really trying to “change the facts” nor m I trying to argue just this individual case. I’ve already stated that the teenager deserves punishment on some level. Texting while driving is indeed an ignorant thing to do.
However legislation as a whole doesn’t cover individual cases. Again restated, 10years in prison, for texting, answer the cell phone or looking at the radio, alll of which could lead to a similar situation, seems harsh.
~Matt