OK, so if you can go under 2:30 on the bike for HIM, stop reading now - this post has nothing to do with you. If you can go under this time you should ride steep, FIST, no spacers etc and you should be happy. Good for you. For everybody else (and I believe this is most of us), steep and short wheel base just dont work. And you can add low front ends to this as well.
I’ve been ridding a custom job for a few months now (having tried and failed on Cervelo, Cannondale etc) and it is the most powerful and fastest ride I’ve ever had. It features the following - its a long wheelbase, its 72 degrees, and it has got lots of spacers!!! So, bottom line - if your riding the latest flash brand and only managing about 2:50 for HIM and feeling like you lack power to climb or punch into a headwind, maybe you shouldnt be set up the ‘standard way’. Try riding slacker and higher and enjoy the result. And yes I’ve had my first glass of prime shiraz vino since completing 70.3 Port Mac, and yes my tolerasnce has diminished (hic) but it had to be said - steep angles and short wheel base bikes are evil for most of the wave start and its time someone said so.
My wife took some golf lessons. The first instructor used a template ie “This is how the swing must be executed” (how Tiger Woods does it) regardless of body shape, strength, flexibility, coordination. We switched to another instructor who worked to tweak what she had with much better results.
That is a bad golf instructor, good for her for getting away. Tiger has an almost perfect swing but he has so much flexibility it is virtually impossible to replicate. If you want a swing that can be modeled and is pretty much textbook, look at some old footage of Payne Stewart or even lesser known pro Tom Purtzer.
Well I like to walk the course, so I’d call it extreme slow twitch.
I’ve actually considered golfing ambidextrously to keep balanced muscle development (may also encourage more walking as I spray the ball everywhere) . This will tell you I enjoy doing triathlons more.
WRT to golf instructors, you get what you pay for.
I frequently do 12 oz curls whilst golfing, alternating each arm to stay balanced. I played a lot of golf growing up, now I would do a 4 hour bike ride everyday before playing a 4 hour round of golf.
I don’t know how this turned into golftwitch, but that was a good analogy. Before I was a cyclist, I attempted to be a golfer. All I can say about that is … I’ve never thrown by bike into a lake.
As to what the OP said, I think he’s right. BUT … I’d hate to see people not even attempt to see if they can adapt to a lower/steeper position. I’m old and creeky and I never thought it would work for me, but I adapted quite easily and I’ve been very happy with the results with respect to comfort, power and ultimately, speed.
I agree but there is also a segment of the tri-population who will stay in an uncomfortable steep aero position because it a) looks good and b) the fast guys do it so it must be right.
… maybe not thrown into a lake, but how about lava fields
I agree but there is also a segment of the tri-population who will stay in an uncomfortable steep aero position because it a) looks good and b) the fast guys do it so it must be right.
I’m sure you’re right. Who knows why folks do what they do. Ultimately, what’s best for most of us comes down to what works to keep us getting out there. If you’re not comfortable and it ain’t fun, what’s the point?
**… maybe not thrown into a lake, but how about lava fields **
Those Germans have the bike toss thing down. First Bjarne Riis in the Tour a decade ago, then Normann at Kona last year. I think Riis deserves the champions trophy, though. His toss was much farther.
the problem with your post is the apparent lack of understanding the correlation between “steep” and “low”. Going steep does not make it physiologically more difficult to ride low…it makes it easier.
In my experience, MOST triathletes would actually be able to get lower by going steeper. The people who make less use of this are experienced cyclists (who understand how to rotate their pelvis forward and down) who already may have the flexibility and experience to ride differently. That isn’t to say that perhaps they shouldn’t ride steep…but perhaps they are already low enough in front (i.e. Bjorn the cycling Gumby
yeah - but riding steep kindof requires you to rotate your pelvis and essentially spend some quality time sitting on your privates. However, I do ride steep and low, but am still amazed at the discomfort from riding like this. For me, it was more comfortable being higher with more of a slam position, but it was not aero enough to justify the comfort.
Here is a comfort breakdown for my IM training rides
0 - 25mi = feels good
25 - 60 = feels terrible, akin to banging yourself in the junk with a deadblow
60 - 100+ = tolerable but discomfort and periodic numbness
So I can see it. If discomfort was enough to seriously compromise power, then go more slammed and get comfy - E
“MOST triathletes would actually be able to get lower by going steeper”
Exactly. As you go steeper you’re are rotating lower in the front automatically if holding the same position. The steeper you are, the easier it is to get lower in the front while maintaining hip angle.
However, there are two areas that are always under more stress when riding steeper - and this is not related to improper fit. One is the neck as it has to held in more extension and the other is the crotch. I always found both of these tended to bother me on longer rides on my tri bike. Never a problem on my road bike. Personally, I liked the steep aggressive position for a sprint/oly/TT, but for a long race I’d be willing to give up some of the aero advantage to be more comfortable. That goes with the territory at my age.
I’ve been ridding a custom job for a few months now (having tried and failed on Cervelo, Cannondale etc) and it is the most powerful and fastest ride I’ve ever had. It features the following - its a long wheelbase, its 72 degrees, and it has got lots of spacers!!!
Maybe a dumb question but…
If you have a custom bike why didn’t you have it build so that you didn’t need “lots of spacers”? I would think that would be part of the reason to go custom?
“steep angles and short wheel base bikes are evil”
my tri bike has a steep seat angle and a long wheelbase. the steeper the seat angle, the longer will be your wheelbase. my road race bike has a wheeelbase of 100cm, my tri bike 105cm.
the typical pro triathlete, if we’re talking about a 70.3 guy or longer, is riding 400 miles per week plus or minus. if you ask these guys and gals they’ll tell you that their ability to ride these miles on their steep bikes has nothing to do with pain threshold. rather, because of their long miles, they need comfort even more than you do, assuming you’re riding on average a fourth what they ride.
in my experience, it’s not steep that causes people problems. it’s not shallow that causes people problems. it’s discomfort that causes people problems. in point of fact, a particular kind of comfort problem is fixed by riding steep, and that is the discomfort associated with riding in an unpowerful position. in the same way you can make a roadie ride shallow when he wants to ride steep (“on the rivet”) you can make a triathlete ride shallow as well. but triathletes (and under certain conditions roadies as well) would generally prefer not to. the trick is to allow a ride to comfortably ride in the position that will generate him the most power.
this is all predicated on the position being correct, and the equipment being correct. if you’re positioned at your correct seat angle, and you have the right equipment underneath you (your most comfortable steep-riding aero bars, saddle, etc.) you’re not going to have a comfort problem riding steep.
this has nothing to do with ability. nor with age. seventy percent of the age groupers out there will ride a steep bike better than a shallow one. but you’ve got to be positioned properly, not just steeply, and while you can get away with riding a lot of different kinds of saddles if you’re going to ride shallow, you really do have to find the one that’s most comfortable in order to ride steep for a long distance.
but all this pertains to pros and AGers alike. pros don’t beat you because they have the taints of steel. their taints and yours are pretty similar. they don’t beat you because they are more flexibie. they beat you because they consume more oxygen per given period of time per given measure of body weight; and because more calories are absorbed per hour; and because they produce more watts per measure of body weight. they have no special ability to ride a position you cannot achieve.
I had the same question… unless the idea is that, later, it could be lower.
riding high and having spacers are related, of course, but you can find bikes that will let you ride higher without spacers; or you can use a stem w/more rise.
this isn’t to say that spacers are bad, or that riding high is bad, just that you don’t always need both.
