so is columbus 853 the standard these days? Not the gold standard necessarily, but is it the most prevalent in use?
assuming 3 different manufacturers (lemond/bianchi/IF) make an all steel frame, standard/classic road geometry (no compact/sloping stuff) using columbus 853, and assuming tires/seatposts/forks and anything else that may affect ride quality are the same, can I assume the bikes will ride pretty much the same?
What else goes into this that differentiates a $1,200-1,500 steel frame from a $3,000+, both using same tubing?
so is columbus 853 the standard these days? Not the gold standard necessarily, but is it the most prevalent in use?
assuming 3 different manufacturers (lemond/bianchi/IF) make an all steel frame, standard/classic road geometry (no compact/sloping stuff) using columbus 853, and assuming tires/seatposts/forks and anything else that may affect ride quality are the same, can I assume the bikes will ride pretty much the same?
What else goes into this that differentiates a $1,200-1,500 steel frame from a $3,000+, both using same tubing?
besides marketing.
Hello, Not positive but I think 853 is Reynolds. Probably the most common in higher end steel but their are others.
Yes given those constraints the bikes would be about the same as long as you specify the tubing size used. 853 and other high end tubes comes in a wide variety of wall thickness, diameters and shapes, these choices can subtly affect the ride.
Also I think steel is past its prime for a off the rack frame, where it still shines is for someone with specific ideas on a custom bike. High end folding bike with disk brakes? No problem. Racing style bike with clearance for fenders? Yep.
didn’t realize that the 853 came in different wall thickness/shapes. I assumed that the “853” was some sort of standard designation for those sorts of variations.
“Also I think steel is past its prime for a off the rack frame” does this refer to the carbon craze/fad we are in the midst of?
didn’t realize that the 853 came in different wall thickness/shapes. I assumed that the “853” was some sort of standard designation for those sorts of variations.
“Also I think steel is past its prime for a off the rack frame” does this refer to the carbon craze/fad we are in the midst of?
serotta uses some colombus “niobium” tubing for their steel cIII, fierte and csi frames.
from my limited knowledge of steel bikes (I got a ciii last year and have been completed converted), I’ve also been told that tubing (size, diameters) make a difference. All the angles (seat tube) etc. make a difference, and I think that shorter chainstays etc. do affect the way the bike rides.
So what makes an expensive frame different? The welds on the serotta are beautifully smooth. If you look on the seatstays, it has a little knob to hang your chain when you remove the rear wheel). There are small details where the serotta symbol is engraved. The joint of the seatstay and chainstay are welded into little open circles/donunts that I guess affect the ride (its not a simple junction). Some bikes use steel lugs: http://www.kirkframeworks.com/ beautiful stuff. (aesthetics)
“Also I think steel is past its prime for a off the rack frame” does this refer to the carbon craze/fad we are in the midst of?
IMO, carbon is way over rated. It’s being hyped as the “only” material. But if you must have some carbon get one of the new OCLV/steel Lemond frames. The aero tubing of carbon or aluminium may make some good sense with a tri bike but with a road bike steel is still the gold standard for ride quality. One titanium frame maker even brags that their titanium frames “ride just like steel”
As LarryCalifornia always says - why is it no manufacturers ever say “rides like aluminium”. A lot of people have posted that they don’t notice much difference between an aluminium and carbon ride but I will swear that I do with steel or titanium.
it has a little knob to hang your chain when you remove the rear wheel). Their are small details where the serotta symbol is engraved.
Ahhh…the good old days! You have a pump peg on the head tube too? That would be super cool. Lugs can and do make a frame siffer than welds as they can use lower temp’s to put the frame together brazing with lugs as opposed to Tig. It is quite easy to over heat and even blow holes in the super thin walls of steel (or any other frame material for that matter) with a Tig. Then again there is possible over heating with lesser skilled folks brazing a frame and letting the joints heat soak…oh…the glory days of steel…I need a Rivendell.
I’m with you on the steel. I’ve got an 03 ALL STEEL lemond zurich, before they went with the spine technology combining steel with carbon or ti and going with the sloping tube/compact geometry. faddish i think.
i also ride an aluminum ocr giant. it’s a bit lighter and quicker on the climbs, but if I had to choose one, it would be the lemond.
i’m just curious for a weekend warrior rider, would going custom with a steel IF or serotta be worth the money?
"would going custom with a steel IF or serotta be worth the money? "
I know a guy who has one. Beautiful bike with full Record. He’s one of these older guys who after owning lesser rides for many years finally bought his dream bike. In fact he refers to it as his “rest of his life bike.”
“Also I think steel is past its prime for a off the rack frame” does this refer to the carbon craze/fad we are in the midst of?
IMO, carbon is way over rated. It’s being hyped as the “only” material. But if you must have some carbon get one of the new OCLV/steel Lemond frames. The aero tubing of carbon or aluminium may make some good sense with a tri bike but with a road bike steel is still the gold standard for ride quality. One titanium frame maker even brags that their titanium frames “ride just like steel” Reply, I never said carbon, just that for most off the rack applications either C, AL, or Ti can be supperior than off the rack steel. Ti frames can feel like steel, be lighter, and nowadays are about the same cost.
As LarryCalifornia always says - why is it no manufacturers ever say “rides like aluminium”. A lot of people have posted that they don’t notice much difference between an aluminium and carbon ride but I will swear that I do with steel or titanium. Reply - Exactly my point if you are stressing ride quality, a lower end Ti frame will feel the same cost the same be lighter and more corrosion resistant than steel. Styrrell
For a guy with multiple bikes (including one steel) I’m not sure if you would benefit much from a custom Serotta. My main reason for getting it was comfort. I’m the long leg, short torso variety so custom made a huge difference. I mean, yeah the bike is beautiful and I intend to keep it for a very long time, but you can probably look at some Ti and carbon bikes that are on sale these days.
Don’t get me wrong I would never trade my bike in, but having to worry about the rusting qualities of steel sucks. I live in humid, road-unfriendly montreal where I get scratches (I’m not gentle either). The paint job is so thin (to keep weight down?) that I’m constantly having to look over the frame and apply touch-up paint… I’d love to get a Ti bike I can ride in the rain without a worry in the world…
which of those frames cost 3000+ for 853 ? IF’s are around 1400, i think. maybe they bumped up a bit recently, reflecting demand but i cannot think of any 853 frame that is 3K.
most of the cost in the bikes you are referencing is related to where they are made, and associated cost there. bianchi’s are outta taiwan, the lemond may be domestic, or overseas - i am not certain. IF’s are made in somerville, MA, and they are constructed to a higher “boutique level” standard of fit and finish - they are a category or two removed from the other other two in that regard… in addition, you are paying for the interaction and time you spend with the IF staff one on one, as you work thru exactly what your bike is going to be. in that sense the lemond and the bianchi are competitors, but an IF is really at a different niche altogether.
if you mean $1200-1500 BIKE vs $3000 BIKE then obviously, there is a lot more to that.
funny you should mention the rusting. I am in boston so I have the same humid summer weather and snow/ice/salt winter weather. And, I live about 1/2 mile from the ocean. I am actually planning on having a local dealer look at my frame because of rusting/peeling paint on the bottom bracket, rear wheel dropouts and chain stays. hopefully warranty covers that.
as far as custom, i think i am fairly proportional so probablly no need for that extra cost.
I think I will stay with steel though for future purchases.
which of those frames cost 3000+ for 853 ? IF’s are around 1400, i think. maybe they bumped up a bit recently, reflecting demand but i cannot think of any 853 frame that is 3K. I’m not sure what tubing they normally use but I bet you could exceed 3K with baylis, columbine, or a host of others. But with them you are not buying a bike frame you are buying rideable art. Heck I think columbine once made a headtube badge that was close to 3K.
most of the cost in the bikes you are referencing is related to where they are made, and associated cost there. bianchi’s are outta taiwan, the lemond may be domestic, or overseas - i am not certain. IF’s are made in somerville, MA, and they are constructed to a higher “boutique level” standard of fit and finish - they are a category or two removed from the other other two in that regard… in addition, you are paying for the interaction and time you spend with the IF staff one on one, as you work thru exactly what your bike is going to be. in that sense the lemond and the bianchi are competitors, but an IF is really at a different niche altogether.
if you mean $1200-1500 BIKE vs $3000 BIKE then obviously, there is a lot more to that.
yer right, I was refering to cost of bike vs. frame. either way, a steel IF frame alone is gonna run me $1,400 vs. a steel lemond bike will run me about the same, maybe less.
If i don’t need custom tubing or dimensions, how much better is IF’s steel gonna “ride” vs the reynolds 853? (assuming all else-components/tires/wheels etc. being equal)
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been jonesing for a steel IF for a couple of years now. Being in the boston area, I would love to help out a local bike company. I just need some good quantifiable justification for plunking down that cash.
Carbon just doesn’t evoke any sort of passion or soul, at least to me.
steel, on the other hand…
working in downtown boston, i am always oogling the bike messenger’s steeds. alot of them are old steel frames with nice straight simple classic lines.
Hello, assuming you already have a bike thier is no rational reason to buy another, but if all of our decisions were made rationally life would be boring beyond all belief. IF makes beautiful bike which by all accounts perform wonderfully. If you like the aethetics and buying one isn’t going to take food out of your kids mouths then go for it.
