Quick question from relatively inexperienced tri-newby. Have started trying to train a little smarter. This means varying intensity and distance, including some fairly long runs at relatively low intensity. The problem is that I’m a pretty big guy (but trying to get smaller) and when I do a long run (usually about 70-80 minutes) I lose a ton of fluid. For example, I did a 80 minute run this morning in pretty hot, humid weather and dropped over four pounds in water weight. (I weighed myself before I started and when I returned). Losing this much fluid definitely causes my heart rate to steadily increase over the course of my run. So if I maintain approx. the same pace what starts out as an easy run inevitably turns into a pretty hard effort by the time I’m done. Given that my easy pace is already pretty slow, if I slowed down enough to maintain a steady heartbeat I’d be moving like a turtle by the end of my run and basically be walking up any sizeable hill.
So, after this long introduction, a few quick questions - should I be bringing a water bottle on my runs (although I just can’t see hauling around and drinking four pounds worth of water with me)? Should I just continue to do what I’m doing now and stop being so anal about pace and heart rate? Should I break up runs and do two shorter runs as a substitute for one longer run (although this may be problematic with my schedule)? Should I abandon my pride and decrease my pace to try to maintain a relatively steady heart rate (even if I end up looking like the 100,000 year old man while “running”)?
4lbs in 80 mins isn’t too bad. Sweat rates around 2 liters(4.5lbs)/hour are not uncommon. You obviously can’t drink enough while running to replace all the fluid you lose and don’t really need to for runs that long. Most people can only absorb 1-1.5 liters/hour. I carry a hand held 20oz bottle for runs over 90 mins in hot weather and rehydrate when I get home. On super long runs(30-50 mile ultras) I stay on top of my hydration while running as much as possible but always finish a few pounds light.
Don’t be too much of slave to heart rate monitor, developing a feel for pace and level of effort is a critical skill to learn. The important thing for easy runs is that they are EASY. You should be able to chat while running at easy pace. Your easy pace will get faster with time. The end of long easy runs will feel easier as your endurance improves.
I would suggest scheduling a water stop in the middle of your run. I’m not sure what your running routes are like, but for long runs I usually drop a bottle along my route or have someone come meet me with water. I’m not talking excessive stops, but for runs over 60-80 minutes, give yourself 1 stop. I took 2 stops over a 110min run last week. There are water stops in races and there’s no reason to suffer without them in training.
Breaking up your long runs into 2 shorter ones is not a good option. You need to push through the whole thing to be ready for it. Your heart rate thing is interesting, but I think it’s probably part of getting fatigued throughout the workout (wouldn’t it be nice to be able to hold your pace indefinitely?). Try the water thing and see if it helps.
The next thing to try is salt tablets (Hammer nutrition endurolytes probably have the best reputation). They replenish the electrolytes that you sweat out and thus help minimize fatigue. They are especially effective when it’s warm because of the extra sweating you do.
You may also want to try experimenting with energy gels as well since your body needs replenishing to work right on long efforts.
Hey trinewby, those are good questions. Losing a lot of water weight doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with your size, by the way: I sweat profusely, and am definitely on the lighter end of things, so I lose a lot of water weight during hot workouts too.
It can be hard to keep your heart rate in check. I’m recovering from a running injury, and it’s sooo hard to keep my pace in the “Easy” heart rate zone, because I know I can run faster for pretty long distances. Running slower may not mean you lose less water weight, because you’ll be out there longer, even if you’re not working as hard. So, be sure your pace is appropriate. Don’t be afraid to swallow your pride to keep your pace slow: running consistently is more important than running speedily. See BarryP’s posts for lots about that. If heat is causing you to work harder than you intend to, slow down!
As far as water, there are a few tricks you can do. As you suggest, you can carry a bottle. I like that okay, especially when trail running, but I’m not enamored of it. I feel like it changes my stride a bit. You can plan your route around passing a water fountain. You can also ride your bike partway out your run course and stash a bottle for yourself. I don’t do this except for LONG runs on hot days, which I only do rarely. I’ve frozen a bottle overnight and stashed it in the bushes. Nothing like coming across a coldie in 90 degree weather
I’m a moderate to heavy sweater and typically lose about 2-3 lbs of water weight per hour. I’m 6’2, 185 so not a small guy. My rule of thumb is to take fluid with me for anything longer than 10 miles or 75 minutes. I use a 4 btl Fuel Belt (32 oz) and try to evenly spread out my drinking over the course of the run. If its really hot out (90+), I’ll take fluid on anything longer than an hour…but for an hour run, I would simply take a 20oz bottle and carry it in my hand.
FWIW, I use GuH20 as my sports drink. I’ll also take a gel and take it at the halfway point for anything longer than 12 miles.
consider going back for it/them when done too. i have a couple spots where i can position bottles and then drop them 50-75 feet up the road or trail without issue. i also cut a corner off a plastic baggie and use a rubber band to hold it tight around the nipple to keep it clean.
I’m a big fan of my Amphipod 2-bottle belt – surprisingly comfortable and doesn’t bounce around much at all. It gives me enough liquid to get me through slow, endurance runs up to ~10-12 miles, keeps my hands free & don’t have to bother w/bottle drop(s)
Also, for the OP - I’d say the increase in HR you’re experiencing simply is because you’re getting tired late in the run – not necessarily due to fluid loss from sweating. As your fitness level builds, you’ll find your HR may be more consistent for the same pace throughout a given distance. Meanwhile, its still a good idea to have drinks on hand for longer runs (60min+?). For anything shorter, I find I can do without as long as I take a good drink before starting.
I run multiple loops from my house or figure 8’s with the house in the middle. Leave some a water bottle on the front porch and swing by every 30-45 minutes depending on the heat/length of the run.
Thanks guys. Comments on this thread and another thread about dehydration have been very helpful. Sounds like I can’t blame my increased HR and deteriorating pace on fluid loss, but rather lack of training. This will definitely keep my motivated.
Idea of stashing a bottle along my route is something I’ve been thinking about. My long runs usually consist of a series of loops, so I could definitely stash a good sized water/gatoraid bottle in the bushes and create my own water stop which I would pass by a couple of times during my run. I also like the idea of partially freezing said bottle. I sometimes freeze one of my bike bottles overnight. On long rides there is nothing nicer than still having something cool to drink halfway through my ride.
I use a fuel belt with 2 10oz bottles and either run loops past my house or van. The best solution for me has been to run past a convenience store, that way I don’t wimp out and stay at home after the first loop
I use two bottles for runs up to 10 miles and 3 or 4 for longer runs. I will have half the bottles full of Gatorade and half with water and I freeze them all the night before. Works great for me and I even stash my cell phone in the front pocket. It’s the Nathan Speed 4. That can hold 40ozs in total with all 4 bottles full.
I am in the same boat as you. I am a little lighter at 5’9" and 155lbs. I sweat like nobody else I know. I lose about 4-5lbs per long run of about 1hr30min. It is to the point that my running shoes get soaked from dripping sweat trough my shorts and down my legs. Here is what I do in terms of hydration during hot months:
Anything longer than 45 up to 1hr water only and salt stick tablets( any will do). I use Helium 4 bottle, total 32oz belt. Anything over 1hr I fill sports drink (I use accelerade, any will do), salt stick tablet 1 every 30min. My fuel belt has been a great tool.
Besides fluid loss that you have done good job measuring by weighing, check your face for dried electrolyte residue. That will also indicate how concentrated your sweat is and indirectly tell you wether you are loosing a lot of electrolytes. That is very much individual. Besides hydration and fueling consider electrolyte intake as they are essential in muscles firing during activity.
All the suggestions with placing bottles along are great. That is another option.
As far as HR/pace in heat. Well the only option is to slow down. It is normal to see HR/pace decoupling in heat. As you acclimate somewhat the decoupling and cardiac drift should reduce. Keep in mind that HR is an indirect measurement of how hard you are working, but it is a total measurement. It reflects muscle work, heat, fatigue…Rise in HR over time during a steady aerobic activity in heat is attributed to cardio/vascular system providing for cooling as well as muscle work. Loss of fluid trough sweat changes the viscosity of blood increasing your HR further over time.
I never acclimate to heat even tough I try. I am always slower for the given RPE. I just have hard time accepting it.
In the warmer months for longer rides, I drop 4-7 bike bottles in a cooler, stop by the grocery and buy a bag of ice to keep cool, and then do the ride or the runs on a loop so I am passing it every 20-30 minutes on the run or whatever on the bike. I keep extra gels, electro caps, extra batteries for my mp3 player, etc. all there.
Just loop. It’s not a sight-seeing tour, it’s a training exercise.
I am fortunate (in this case, at least) to live in a college town, so during my training runs I make sure to run by some of the student buildings that are almost always open (the student Union, the big lecture hall, the library, etc) so I can pop in for a stop at the water fountain/bathroom if need be! However, my favorite route takes me nowhere near campus, and so in that case I usually do a 30 or 40 minute loop from my apartment.
I’ll second the Fuel Belt solution. Large water bottles bounce too much. Not keen on the bottle drop idea. Some kid makes off with it and then what? Also, can’t drink when I want with a bottle drop.
