On the northbound bike leg, somebody was kind enough to call out my name and say hi. Without my glasses, I can’t read the names on the bibs or even recognize anyone.
Who was that? …and thanks!
Missed you this weekend. How did your race go? Hopefully better than Sergio’s and Pooks’?
Missed you this weekend. How did your race go? Hopefully better than Sergio’s and Pooks’?
I saw you on the run but was so consumed by my own misery that I couldn’t even blurt out a hello.
I did the race last-minute since the plans that caused me to back out in the first place got changed Wednesday night. Coming off the flu and too little swim and run training.
I had some sort of monster technique breakdown on the swim. I swam 6 minutes slower than in any other half IM. I swam 20 seconds per 100 slower than in any 1500 or 1.2 swim I have ever done – in any sort of fitness. I swam 3 minutes slower than I did on the second lap at Lake Placid where I had to stop and hold the lifeguard surfboards because of cramps. I am baffled and confused and very pissed. I can breastroke that fast in the pool!
All I can figure is that I was doing something in my technique so completely wrong and didn’t know it. It is just not possible to go out and swim 20 seconds per 100 slow. Not possible.
But anyway, the bike was fun! I managed a 2:42 while averaging only 190 watts. I had lost my motivation after the swim. I am very happy with my bike setup now and think I’ve got it locked in for the stretch run to Idaho.
I saw poor Pooks sitting on that hill. The guy has got to switch to clinchers!
I ran 4 minutes slower than I did in a very hilly half IM run in October. And Saturday’s run was much harder on me. Closest I have come to walking off a race course. I made quite the spectacle puking all the way up to and through the finish chute (anybody catch that?!!). But at least I had even splits! My first trip to the med tent.
So, lesson learned – be prepared. If you go to a race half-assed, you get a half-assed result. 33/247 in the M40-44 (but I move up next year – woulda been 10th in the M45-49!). 29 places better than last time I did Ralphs, but 13 places behind where I thought I could be.
I swear a sea lion was holding onto my foot or something on the swim. It was a bizarre experience and I just don’t know what to think.
I still don’t know how people can run as fast as you do. 1:31 and when I saw you it looked like you were out for a jog. Nice job – keep it rolling for Brazil!
Cheers,
Rick
You must have seen me early. I faded the last few miles.
You weren’t the only one who was slower in the swim. I was 3 minutes slower than usual and I sure can’t afford to get any slower than I already am.
My bike was most disappointing, though. My hands were numb after the swim and I couldn’t put my gloves and arm warmers on and I froze on the bike. I really struggle to ride when I get cold and Saturday was no exception. Once we hit the hills though, I warmed up and it got better.
76 days until Brazil and I need to swim at least 60 of those days.
J, if you have booked to go with Ken Glah’s team I hope you haven’t booked at the Chaundra. Don’t forget to take a rain jacket for the bike if you intend to do the bike course tour and pack a sweater just in case you get the weather we had last year.
I wasn’t me.
You should be stoked on the race J - unless I read the results wrong your bike rocked - under 5 on a day like that deserves a big congrats!
Fine, fine race Rick. You are going to be gunning for sub 11 hours in Idaho and a Kona slot it would seem. Very fine effort.
How did you get so fast on the bike?
WOW on a 190 watts that is geat! How much do you weight and how tall are you?
J, if you have booked to go with Ken Glah’s team I hope you haven’t booked at the Chaundra. Don’t forget to take a rain jacket for the bike if you intend to do the bike course tour and pack a sweater just in case you get the weather we had last year.
Chaundra? I didn’t see that place on the list. What was wrong there?
WOW on a 190 watts that is geat! How much do you weight and how tall are you?
I am happy with that result. I know of some elite guys that rode 110 watts more and only finished 10 minutes ahead of me. I know of two guys with darn near the exact power (and size) as me that rode 5 and 9 minutes slower, respectively.
I weighed 161.5 when I got up in the morning. I’m 1/4" shy of 6’. I think that my sometimes silly attention to detail on bike position and wheels is paying dividends. My bike just feels really fast on the flats and into headwinds. I used a CH Aero cover for the first time. This is a genuinely fine piece of equipment. I must say I had my doubts before I got it. Rich from Wheelbuilder sold me one that was pre-trimmed to fit my wheel. I installed it Friday night and my very first ride on it was the race. I sure felt fast with it on there, and it stayed tight and snug and very quiet. It doesn’t have that whomping disc sound (which is a good or bad thing, depending on what you want). I was going to get a new 808 front wheel from Inside Out at the expo, but they were shipped the wrong wheel. Cid was nice enough to loan me a 404 clincher for the race.
I did learn an important lesson on Saturday. We can look at aerodynamic refinement from two perspectives: Maximizing our speed for our given level of fitness. Or, hiding our weaknesses. There is a little bit of both going on for me.
I work hard to hide my weakness (eg, low bike power) on the flats and rollers. But, there is nowhere to hide on the climbs. My power-to-weight ratio is just not up to the standards of the good cyclists in my AG. Given where I started the bike (in the very last wave, and behind the best overall triathletes in my wave due to my slow swim), I was passing hundreds of people on the bike. But, when we got to the hills, even the MOP women were keeping up with me. The big guns my age are hitting those climbs at well over 4 watts a kilo, and I’m averaging barely 3 on the climbs. So, the 5-7 minute bike gap between me and the top-ten types in my AG is right there on the hills.
My Ralph’s power summary:
Average: 191
Normalized: 208 (goal was 210)
1st hour: 193 avg/205 norm
2nd hour: 196/219 (most of the climbs here)
Final 42 min: 182/195 (power numbers are lower here due to the 13-mile downhill back to T2)
I think this just goes to show that MOP-type power numbers can deliver a decent bike split (call it “FOMOP”, or front-of-the-middle-of-the-pack). I say it all the time – aerodynamics matters. It’s not as simple as “get low” – it’s more complicated and subtle. I use my weekly flat threshold workouts to continually test my speed at given power levels. I’ve been able to lower my estimated CdA at least 10% in the past six months simply through body position changes, not fancy new gear. That is free speed, my friends.
Anyway, long answer to a simple question, but it’s something I think about a lot and I wanted to write it down.
Ah, I’m not too surprised at that. When we arrived it was cold and there was no heat, as most of the a/c units could not be reversed to provide heat, then there was no hot water including the showers! The pictures on the website seemed to show a fairly luxurious set of cabanas, reality was a little more basic. WE chose it for it’s location as it was the closest to the start/finish line. I would suggest the Jurere Beach hotel, a little soul less but luxurious and the centre for Ken’s operations. I would recommend going with Ken and his company, very professional and nothing is too much trouble.
Fine, fine race Rick. You are going to be gunning for sub 11 hours in Idaho and a Kona slot it would seem. Very fine effort.
How did you get so fast on the bike?
Thank you for the kind words, Art. If you ever catch me giving swimming advice on this board again, just type “34:34” into a reply message and I will shut up and go away. 
The post above tells why I think I’m having decent bike splits. Two other things are lifting my sustained power: Threshold workouts and driving bigger gears. I do at least one very tough bike workout a week on the flats – I spend 30-40 minutes at “CP60” in intervals of 8-15 minutes long. Total workout time is 90-120 minutes, with the non-interval parts at good solid pace, not cruising. I feel that this workout is the lynchpin of my program. As I now turn attention to IM, the long ride will have to be the key one, but I’ll keep this tough workout in the program. From what I read of Ray Britt’s, he does the same sort of thing. For those of us that don’t (can’t) do tons of volume and 5 rides a week, we need to work very hard on some shorter rides every week.
Using bigger gears has been interesting. I don’t do “big gear workouts”, per se, like Gordo and some others prescribe – I just use bigger gears all the time now. By having power goals for workouts, I have found that I hit the power levels – and hold onto them – better by pushing bigger gears at lower cadences. I just took it for granted that we should all pedal at 90-95 rpm all the time. I have learned that I do much better down in the low 80’s. My average cadence at Ralphs was 75. I was holding steady-state efforts at about 80 rpms.
The common thread through all of this is the power meter. It really does live up to the hype if you learn how to listen to what it has to say.
Thanks for sharing. Gets me thinking. I am pretty flexible, have a core are and never exeperinec any back problems in my curremt position. I could ride in my current aero poistion for 6 hours with out any tightness so I am thinking I could go more agressive.
I am just uder 6 feet as well but my weight is about 173 right now. My steady state watts (IM race pace) are about 200-220 call it 210 avg. What is the ratio of watts to pounds to mph. Thats is assuming I had the same poistion as you (ie drag) and was able to generate my current power how many more watts would i have to put out to ride the same speed? Also on a 173 pound guy what kind of increase in mph can one expect for a 20 watt increase in power all other things held contanst?
Thanks for sharing!
Ed
Thanks for sharing. Gets me thinking. I am pretty flexible, have a core are and never exeperinec any back problems in my curremt position. I could ride in my current aero poistion for 6 hours with out any tightness so I am thinking I could go more agressive.
I am just uder 6 feet as well but my weight is about 173 right now. My steady state watts (IM race pace) are about 200-220 call it 210 avg. What is the ratio of watts to pounds to mph. Thats is assuming I had the same poistion as you (ie drag) and was able to generate my current power how many more watts would i have to put out to ride the same speed? Also on a 173 pound guy what kind of increase in mph can one expect for a 20 watt increase in power all other things held contanst?
Ed,
We really need to do our own experimentation. There are always surprises between what we expect and what a given rider actually does. “Rules of thumb” are not terribly reliable. That said, some thoughts are:
With the same CdA (ie, drag), you and me and anyone else will go the same speed on the flats at a given power output. However, you and I won’t likely end up at the same CdA with the “same” bike position. One of us will be more slippery than the other – and there is no way to know which one without testing. Bike positions are quite individual.
The refinement of the bike position dominates the resulting CdA. While body weight plays a role, it is a rather small one. I’m 161; you’re 173. That is close enough for us to end up with similar CdAs, and we would ride together at the same power. But, our weight difference will mean that you work ~16 watts harder than me on the same climb in an IM. That’s why I want to drop about 8 pounds before Idaho.
As a rough guide – 20 watts at a “normal” triathlete CdA of around 0.30 is about 0.7 mph. Over the IM distance, that is a big improvement for a given cyclist.
With the same CdA (ie, drag), you and me and anyone else will go the same speed on the flats at a given power output.
Only if you measure this power in W/Kg
With the same CdA (ie, drag), you and me and anyone else will go the same speed on the flats at a given power output.
Only if you measure this power in W/Kg
No – any effect that the size (mass) of the rider has on CdA is already reflected in the CdA figure. The power required to go a steady speed with a given CdA on a flat course is independent of mass*. Only when riding up or down a grade does mass come back into play.
*In “material” terms. One can make a technical argument that the bike is not traveling at a constant speed; it is accelerating and decelerating constantly, etc., etc. Rolling resistance also can depend on mass. But, those effects are very small and can be ignored for all practical purposes for considerations of open-road TT events. Mass certainly doesn’t have a linear effect that could be expressed as “W/kg.”
I have to think there may be a calibration difference between your power meter and some of those 300W, 2.5 hour guys. The reports I have read have them pretty close in weight to you, so I find it tough to believe your CdA could be so low, or theirs so high, that you are within 10 minutes for a 110W difference. Although, their average of 22.4mph seems low for 300W, I’m much heavier and see ~24mph at that wattage on flat ground. The only thing that makes sense to me is that maybe they are including transition time or something. If you are comparing SRM/Ergomo to Powertap then there can be a few watts difference in the drivetrain. I’ve also noticed that some people report their normal power while others report the average. It seems clear that average power is what should be compared, the only reason to report normal power is that the number is probably higher.
Your thoughts? Anyway, congrats on the race!
Hey, maybe some of your bike time was actually counted as swim time? Would it be possible?
I have to think there may be a calibration difference between your power meter and some of those 300W, 2.5 hour guys. Although, their average of 22.4mph seems low for 300W, I’m much heavier and see ~24mph at that wattage on flat ground. If you are comparing SRM/Ergomo to Powertap then there can be a few watts difference in the drivetrain. It seems clear that average power is what should be compared, the only reason to report normal power is that the number is probably higher.
Hey, maybe some of your bike time was actually counted as swim time? Would it be possible?
Thoughts…
Yes – An SRM’s numbers should be reduced by about 5% when comparing to a Powertap. So, Wim’s 300 watts would be adjusted to about 285 to make a fair comparison to my numbers. As for CdA, there are plenty of very fast guys riding around at 0.30 (like Gordo B. and Bjorn A.). I think I’m down around 0.27, and it makes a big difference.
22.4 is fast for that course, even for the big dogs. It is far hillier than most people realize. It was also windy.
I think it is good to compare both NP and AP. By comparing AP, and equalizing for weight, we can get a sense of which rider did a better job of pace execution and aerodynamics. NP is helpful in comparing the relative efforts we put out. My NP has an effect on my run split – AP doesn’t so much. And the ratio of NP to AP is a telling figure. Mine, at 1.09, was on the high side. I think 1.05-1.07 would have been achievable on this course. I soft-pedalled too much on the short descents.
Yeah – I wish my swim time was overstated! No, that’s an accurate number. I just can’t figure it out. Bummer too – I just figured out that one of my main local “markers” beat me by nine seconds. It would have been nice to move up one spot – just for the tri club bragging rights!
As for what people post – you’re right, some folks switch around between AP and NP. When I post power numbers in the context of “effort” or “what I did in training lately” I always give the NP figure. ie, “I rode 4 hours today at 195 watts.”
But good race splits depend on keeping AP up close to NP. There is a skill to pacing a bike on a rolling course. I’ve got more to learn there.
Jason
You had us worrying when it took you so long to get back. We were trying to figure out how much to sell he P3 for in the classifieds.
Head over to phx, stop fueding w/ the sister and I’ll toss you in the pool. I promise you’ll swim faster after 30 min.