So for most, is run training to get faster not worth the pain?

Triathlon Forum
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I raced Sunday and was shocked again to end up with the 3rd fastest run for the Olympic for an old guy and got 14th OA. I just keep talking to folks asking why so many folks just do not seem to be able to run fast, even when they can kill the bike.

I happened to be get an email from a top older athlete I was talking to and said I just do not get why so many cannot run fast. He response back got my thinking.

"
Running is much harder than swim or bike, getting fast is really hard, run training is hard, plus according to every aging pro run goes much more than swim and bike. You’re a freak of nature. Haha "

I had talked to him at Donner and he had been talking to Scott Tinley about aging and times. If I remember correctly, he was told something like for the swim and bike,
comparing 30 to 60, you are about 80% of your time. But running, it was like 50%.

I know that starting the 100/100 in Dec has me now running just about 7 days a week since then and I have had the fastest run times ever.

When I think about the feedback I got, and then my race Sunday, yep, it really is true. During the swim, I go hard, but it is not killing me. On the bike, I am pushing hard, but again it is not killing me. But when I hit the run, I red line it and I am dying. The mental strength it takes to push the body into the red zone and hold it for 40 minutes is real real hard. So I guess I can see why so many do not want to train enough for the run, let alone have the training to be able to push hard on the run.

So, am I totally off base since the run times do not lie.

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Is bike training not worth the pain Dave ?

4

I always read your post, because I legitimately get you and desert dude mixed up. Before I click, I always ask myself ‘is this the crazy old dude who rails on the fat athletes’ or ‘is this the guy that always has pretty intelligent triathlon posts’.

5

I always read your post, because I legitimately get you and desert dude mixed up. Before I click, I always ask myself ‘is this the crazy old dude who rails on the fat athletes’ or ‘is this the guy that always has pretty intelligent triathlon posts’.

And then the disappointment sets in…

6

It’s cause all the fast people were in the sprint race;) It was a local race and doing a 40 min triathlon 10k seems pretty fast in that context. I did the sprint and there was quite of bit of rolling hills and minimal flat. Plus the first waves don’t get that run draft effect as much as the last waves:) so I blame it all on that.

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I think run training is actually easy. Easier than swimming and biking. You don’t need to do much speed work to be a fast runner. You just need to run A LOT (at an easy pace). Yes the run is a sufferfest during a race but during training, you don’t need to suffer as much as most think.

On the swim and bike, you have to learn to suffer day and day out. Much harder than running IMO.

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I just keep talking to folks asking why so many folks just do not seem to be able to run fast

…i’m surprised those conversations don’t simply end at that point; very awkwardly.

9

I think run training is actually easy. Easier than swimming and biking. You don’t need to do much speed work to be a fast runner. You just need to run A LOT (at an easy pace). Yes the run is a sufferfest during a race but during training, you don’t need to suffer as much as most think.

On the swim and bike, you have to learn to suffer day and day out. Much harder than running IMO.

Then why are so many folks so slow during the run? Even some EMJ guys :slight_smile:

10

I think he often times adds good insight. Hard to run fast overweight. You can generally swim and bike pretty good ( except hills) overweight. Less of a fight with gravity. Also bad posture and muscle imbalances more consequential on the run. Going hard is tuff (heart and muscles) but going hard and throw in achy joints, well the mind has its limits. And likely most of us battle with weight. Not obese but carrying 5-15 pounds of extra luggage. General rule is 3 sec per mile per pound. So 10k time will be slower by almost 4 minutes @15#s overweight. Then add in the psychological impact of slowing when we don’t really want to go to the well that often as we age. Generally manifests more in the run.

I base that my experience in tris since 1984 and soon aging up to 70.

11

I’ll bite.

To run significantly faster I would need to go from 25 mpw to 50+ mpw. Basically do the same amount of intensity, maybe even less, and add time on my feet. That is another 3.5 - 4.0 hpw I don’t have. I would love to. I know the results would come. So, for me it’s not about suffering it’s about time.

If I had extra time I would be better served putting it to the bike given that it is ~50% of the time I spend racing.

So without a dedicated run block and some magical fitness boost that I could hold once I returned to a more balanced schedule, the run stays as it is.

12

I think run training is actually easy. Easier than swimming and biking. You don’t need to do much speed work to be a fast runner. You just need to run A LOT (at an easy pace). Yes the run is a sufferfest during a race but during training, you don’t need to suffer as much as most think.

On the swim and bike, you have to learn to suffer day and day out. Much harder than running IMO.

Then why are so many folks so slow during the run? Even some EMJ guys :slight_smile:

I think you make the constant error that you take your natural running ability for granted. You might think that everyone your age will get the same results you would (sub 1:30 HM at age 55+) on the same training you do, but it’s only a small minority of folks who will respond that well.

Similarly, I think you’re finding that your improvement curve is not as naturally good for the swim and the bike.

Pretty much everyone else on this forum looks at you and wonder why you continue to blow off the swim and bike when it’s clear that those are the exact areas you should be busting tail on given the natural strength of your run. I know you seem to be happy with your results, but you also do seem to be interested in really improving your overall triathlon performance, and for you, continuining to run faster is less yield than really focusing on your weaknesses.

13

I think run training is actually easy. Easier than swimming and biking. You don’t need to do much speed work to be a fast runner. You just need to run A LOT (at an easy pace). Yes the run is a sufferfest during a race but during training, you don’t need to suffer as much as most think.

On the swim and bike, you have to learn to suffer day and day out. Much harder than running IMO.

Then why are so many folks so slow during the run? Even some EMJ guys :slight_smile:

Because they only run 3-4 days a week and 20-25 mpw. Pretty hard to be a fast runner no matter how much speed work one does with that kind of mileage.

14

Another excellent drive-by gloating Dave - very well done.
7/10.

You’ve discovered that doing a lot of consistent run training over time makes one a better runner.
Bravo!

You’re shocked that a guy who trains 21 hours a week, year round, is able to beat people who most likely train quite a bit less?
Or that somebody who does a lot of run volume, can outrun people who may be limited due to current or past injuries? Or by time constraints? Not everybody is retired and has nothing better to do than train and post to ST.

You’ve been fortunate that you have mostly avoided injury. Thus far.

It makes sense that for many/most people, that the higher-impact nature of running could catch up to you as you age.
Enjoy being the exception to the rule - while it lasts.

It would be moronic to redline the swim or bike - you have to pace yourself to not blow up over the course of a 2+ hour event.
Conversely, since the run comes last, there’s no reason not to bury yourself - what would you save it for then?

Keep on keeping on.

15

I think the real reason for this post lies right here:

hum·ble·brag
ˈhəmbəlbraɡ/
verb
gerund or present participle: humble-bragging

make an ostensibly modest or self-deprecating statement with the actual intention of drawing attention to something of which one is proud.

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I think he often times adds good insight. Hard to run fast overweight. You can generally swim and bike pretty good ( except hills) overweight. Less of a fight with gravity. Also bad posture and muscle imbalances more consequential on the run. Going hard is tuff (heart and muscles) but going hard and throw in achy joints, well the mind has its limits. And likely most of us battle with weight. Not obese but carrying 5-15 pounds of extra luggage. General rule is 3 sec per mile per pound. So 10k time will be slower by almost 4 minutes @15#s overweight. Then add in the psychological impact of slowing when we don’t really want to go to the well that often as we age. Generally manifests more in the run.

I base that my experience in tris since 1984 and soon aging up to 70.

Thanks for a logical response. Folks your age are my role models. Not assume I will race at 70, let alone be alive. Congrads.

17

I raced Sunday and was shocked again to end up with the 3rd fastest run for the Olympic for an old guy and got 14th OA. I just keep talking to folks asking why so many folks just do not seem to be able to run fast, even when they can kill the bike.

I happened to be get an email from a top older athlete I was talking to and said I just do not get why so many cannot run fast. He response back got my thinking.

"
Running is much harder than swim or bike, getting fast is really hard, run training is hard, plus according to every aging pro run goes much more than swim and bike. You’re a freak of nature. Haha "

I had talked to him at Donner and he had been talking to Scott Tinley about aging and times. If I remember correctly, he was told something like for the swim and bike,
comparing 30 to 60, you are about 80% of your time. But running, it was like 50%.

I know that starting the 100/100 in Dec has me now running just about 7 days a week since then and I have had the fastest run times ever.

When I think about the feedback I got, and then my race Sunday, yep, it really is true. During the swim, I go hard, but it is not killing me. On the bike, I am pushing hard, but again it is not killing me. But when I hit the run, I red line it and I am dying. The mental strength it takes to push the body into the red zone and hold it for 40 minutes is real real hard. So I guess I can see why so many do not want to train enough for the run, let alone have the training to be able to push hard on the run.

So, am I totally off base since the run times do not lie.

I’m a professional; work at a desk and I’m fatter than I should be… I managed to trim off about 15 lbs and I want another 10minimum but it’s getting harder. 5’11 183. That puts me in the overweight category and I feel it.

For the 1.5 years I’ve been doing Tri’s my performance has gone quite well! Best 5k has been around 8mins avg.

I’ve seen the most improvement from my run efforts going from 33min 5ks down to 24mins.

It’s a process for me but I am trying to run faster. I think I need to just run more and eat less… I noticed early on that my run was my weakest event and I’ve been training that along with the others but really focused on my running.

It’s fun to have posts that push me faster! Thx.

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Dave…do you think you’ll ever work on your bike training so that it isn’t such a limiter for you? Getting faster on the bike is painful, but you might find that it is worth it if you give it a shot. Gotta be painful to lose to all those people you beat on the run due to your slow biking.

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Your welcome. Don’t be discouraged by some comments. I may not always agree but do tune in to your observations.

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Everyone slows down as they age. On average they slow down a lot more on the run than swim and bike. Have a look at a race like Kona. Probably related to running economy and tendon elasticity. Add incidence of injury on top of that. Just as anything, life is not fair and some lose run ability faster than others.

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