Smart Rollers?

Triathlon Forum
1

So I am looking around on Amazon to find a trainer for the winter, and am looking at smart trainers so I can join and get full use out of zwift.

During my search I came across a ‘Smart Rollers’ trainer. Wondering if anyone had any ideas on these vs getting a more traditional trainer like the new Magnus?

Im new to trying to figure this stuff out and power meter related tools (power meter is also in the works down the road, probably P1 pedals).

Here is the trainer:
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Arion-Digital-Smart-Rollers/dp/B01M19J5P5/ref=sr_1_18?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1479712963&sr=1-18&keywords=smart+trainer

2

Know the difference between a trainer or turbo as they call it in Europe, and rollers

Trainers come in two broad categories. Back wheel on the trainer locked by a skewer and a resistance element pressing on that back wheel. Kurt Kinetic Road Machine for example.

Then, the latest crop of smart trainers where they cassette is in the trainer and you attach the rear directly to the trainer.

Rollers are primarily a frame with 2 rollers in the back and one in the front. The bike is NOT locked in and you keep moving and don’t fall off by spinning and applying even pressure on the pedals and the full pedal stroke.

Some rollers are called smart in that they have more safety features to keep you from flying off and they have some of the sensors to broadcast your efforts to your application of choice.

Trainers are good if you want to zone out and just do your workout. Some people claim you cannot output the same big watts efforts on rollers as you can on fixed trainers. Also, it can get really tiring to do more than an hour on rollers, so if you have 4 hour workout, that is going to be very tough.

Some use rollers just for warm-up as you see at Velodrome meets. Most use rollers to perfect their bike handling, cadence and pedal stroke. It is also good to use so that you have to focus as opposed to the mind numbing time on the fixed trainer. In addition, on the fixed trainer, you don’t move, so your ass hurts. On rollers you are moving.
I also like it as I don’t have to fiddle with skewers or changing the wheel, I just put it on the rollers and go.

At age 60 I started to use rollers and ride in the Velodrome. After my first season, I was SHOCKED to see the improvements in my cadence and pedalling efficiency. So, I have both a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and a TACX Galaxie set of rollers.

3

so probably buy a more traditional clamped in smart trainer and then down the road buy a cheap set of rollers to use to change it up?

4

Yes, I actually have 2 sets of rollers. The TACX tab home cost me $200 used and I have another set I keep at the track that cost me $60

5

Know the difference between a trainer or turbo as they call it in Europe, and rollers

Trainers come in two broad categories. Back wheel on the trainer locked by a skewer and a resistance element pressing on that back wheel. Kurt Kinetic Road Machine for example.

Then, the latest crop of smart trainers where they cassette is in the trainer and you attach the rear directly to the trainer.

Rollers are primarily a frame with 2 rollers in the back and one in the front. The bike is NOT locked in and you keep moving and don’t fall off by spinning and applying even pressure on the pedals and the full pedal stroke.

Some rollers are called smart in that they have more safety features to keep you from flying off and they have some of the sensors to broadcast your efforts to your application of choice.

Trainers are good if you want to zone out and just do your workout.** Some people claim you cannot output the same big watts efforts on rollers as you can on fixed trainers. Also, it can get really tiring to do more than an hour on rollers, so if you have 4 hour workout, that is going to be very tough. **

Some use rollers just for warm-up as you see at Velodrome meets. Most use rollers to perfect their bike handling, cadence and pedal stroke. It is also good to use so that you have to focus as opposed to the mind numbing time on the fixed trainer. In addition, on the fixed trainer, you don’t move, so your ass hurts. On rollers you are moving.
I also like it as I don’t have to fiddle with skewers or changing the wheel, I just put it on the rollers and go.

At age 60 I started to use rollers and ride in the Velodrome. After my first season, I was SHOCKED to see the improvements in my cadence and pedalling efficiency. So, I have both a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and a TACX Galaxie set of rollers.

one could always hop off the rollers after 75 minutes. i doubt there’s anything that would require one to be on rollers for more than 30 min at a time. i have done at least one 3.5 hr long ride on rollers in each of the last 3 seasons.

as for power, my old trainers sucked (power from me), and it was difficult to hit road watts. not so on my dumb rollers. For TT bike workouts, while i could do them at close to full bore on rollers, i’ve since switched to using a fork stand

6

as for power, my old trainers sucked (power from me), and it was difficult to hit road watts. not so on my dumb rollers. For TT bike workouts, while i could do them at close to full bore on rollers, i’ve since switched to using a fork stand

Do you mind me asking which roller/fork stand are you using? something similar to the omnium trainer? or was it a full roller set with fork stand as an additional attachment?

7

Good post on rollers v. stationary trainer.
FWIW The linked Rollers were “Smart” Because they provided variable resistance and communicated via Bluetooth and Ant+

8

fork stand extra; rollers, fork stand, and resistance unit all made by Minoura. best $300 i’ve spent on training

9

I have been on a smart roller for the past 2 years when InsideRide released the wireless resistance unit beta. Used it for Zwift and trainer road and was pleasure to use. Done many long rides and still use it to this day. Inside Ride, however discontinued the original wireless unit and partnered with Elite and now they ship their rollers with the Elite resistance unit. I am still waiting on mine so unfortunately I can’t provide you with any feedback on how well the Elite unit works.

However, if you want to go the smart rollers route, I would highly recommend the Inside Ride emotion. The unit is very very well built and you will have it forever. I think rollers are great when it comes to steady state type efforts which I think most tri training require.

The only downside with rollers is you can’t do sprints very well. Also, with high resistance, you will experience tire slippage as you are simulating climbs for example on Zwift.

With a regular trainer, you will be able to quickly hammer any sprint on zwift, or push very high watts as you are climbing.

Lionel Sanders just started using the emotion rollers for his training and look what he did at AZ :wink:

10

Almost all my indoor riding is done on rollers, I just like them better than the standard turbo but I ride a roadbike not a tri bike. I don’t own one of the fancy resistance adjusting models - yet. That said, most resistance adjustable rollers are either mag or wind based, so if you’ve ever ridden on a mag trainer, that’s what you’re getting into. At the pointy end of high wattage efforts, I have to be very careful to not lose “smoothness” on the rollers as it’s easy to rip the tire off if I lean into the effort, especially if you’re in the big ring. The other issue I’ve had was “surging” where you can feel like the the bike is trying to rock itself off the rollers on high effort if you’re not smooth in your pedal stroke. Fancy roller sets have bearings where the entire roller frame can move under the bike which fixes this issue, but my set doesn’t have it.

If you don’t have a powermeter on your bike already, put the money into that and get a cheap set of rollers/ fluid turbo. That’d be a better investment than a hopped up set of rollers, IMO.

11

Thankyou. I didn’t even know there were smart rollers that could be controlled by FE-C. Not that I’d ever spend that much on a set of rollers, but nice to know they exist.

Not sure I like the idea of a set of rollers that controls its own resistance though. What if there is a bug in the software and it suddenly changed… I’m not sure I wouldn’t fall off, particularly if I was going hard at the time. If you’re new to rollers I certainly wouldn’t recommend it.

I’d also second the powermeter suggestion. Save money by getting simple trainer/rollers and use it to get a PM. As regards turbo trainer vs. rollers, they are good for different things and it is up to you what is important. I have ended up with both and use both every week.

12

I use this unit to provide the resistance needed to push out high watts on the rollers.

Cyclops Resistance Unit for Rollers

13

Y’know, those might be the cheapest way to get ERG/from-c mode.

14

Not sure I like the idea of a set of rollers that controls its own resistance though. What if there is a bug in the software and it suddenly changed… I’m not sure I wouldn’t fall off, particularly if I was going hard at the time. If you’re new to rollers I certainly wouldn’t recommend it.

ha… good point. I’ve never had that issue though with the emotion rollers with thousands of miles logged.

15

That is reassuring. Which software is controlling them and is it in slope or ERG mode?

My worry isn’t so much the trainer, presumably they get tested a lot, but more the software sending the commands, which can change with every update. ‘powermatch’ type things complicate it further.

There might be a safety mechanism that prevents sudden changes in resistence. If a sudden change in power is sent to your trainer does it hit you instantly or is it gradual? I have a FE-C turbo trainer and it is very obvious the exact second it turns on. As it senses cadence it could wait till the next downstroke, but it doesn’t.

16

That is reassuring. Which software is controlling them and is it in slope or ERG mode?

My worry isn’t so much the trainer, presumably they get tested a lot, but more the software sending the commands, which can change with every update. ‘powermatch’ type things complicate it further.

There might be a safety mechanism that prevents sudden changes in resistence. If a sudden change in power is sent to your trainer does it hit you instantly or is it gradual? I have a FE-C turbo trainer and it is very obvious the exact second it turns on. As it senses cadence it could wait till the next downstroke, but it doesn’t.

My worry would be the incline on a “hill” would be too tough for my candy a$$ and I would end up on the floor.
Who are these studs riding rollers where the resistance units on the rollers coupled with some tough gear ratios isn’t enough for a workout? My emotion rollers have 3 resistance settings and I haven’t been anywhere close to the toughest setting yet.

17

I had a look at the specs of the elite eMotion rollers mentioned above. They are limited to 6% (from memory) max simulated slope. I suspect this is a common feature. I think my, cheaper, turbo can do 20%, but then you can’t fall off.

18

Who are these studs riding rollers where the resistance units on the rollers coupled with some tough gear ratios isn’t enough for a workout? My emotion rollers have 3 resistance settings and I haven’t been anywhere close to the toughest setting yet.

With typical steady state I keep it on level 1. I’ve only switched to level 2 when I have done a couple light sprints.
I have the Beta wireless unit, but plan on putting the manual magnetic resistance back on soon. I typically use a Kickr anyway for ERG.

19

Just looked up the rollers above:

“Arion Digital Smart B+
Interactive roller with automatic resistance adjustment
High power output: 400 watts at 35 km/h.
Electronically managed magnetic resistance, based on the type of training or course selected.
Max slope: 5%.”

20

Hello,

I have invest a bit of time and money into rollers, because I like them better than trainers but both have pros and cons.

The first upgrade to my CycleOps rollers was to drill holes into the frame, bolt on in-line skate wheels, and self-center it on a plywood frame with bungee cords to make it into “free motion” rollers. My second and third upgrades were SportCrafters drums, OverDrive then High Inertia.
https://www.sportcrafters.com/products/accessories
DIY free motion rollers

I reached out to Paul of Xshifter fame to make a universal wireless resistance unit for rollers, and he expressed interest in the idea.
http://xshifter.com/

If you have deep pockets, the ultimate indoor cycling experience looks like it be on the

Tacx
http://magnum.tacx.com

OREKA
http://orekatraining.com

I usually find out about most of these products on BikeRumor or NewAtlas
http://www.bikerumor.com
http://newatlas.com

There is a tread on Xshifter in the forums here:
Xshifter on Slowtwitch

-Steve