1 Like
Fair play, IMO.
I’ve been reading this thread with interest, esp. since we just got off a transatlantic flight yesterday with our 8 year old.
I have sympathy for multiple perspectives expressed in this thread. My abbreviated thoughts:
If kid’s under 5-ish and parents aren’t totally useless in terms of crisis management: BCTriguy has defended the position well. Sometimes everyone gets dealt a shitty hand - kid, parents, nearby passengers. Passengers who complain in those situations should grow up and realize they’re supposed to be adults when shit gets real.
If kid’s 5-7-ish: grey area. Parents probably should have instilled some manners and discipline by that point. But if it’s a long flight and/or kid hasn’t flown before, some leniency may be warranted.
Kid is 8+: Parents and kids should probably have learned to deal gracefully by that point, absent really trying circumstances. In my immediate case from yesterday, we got held on the ground for nearly 3 hours before departing for a nearly 8 hour flight. Wimsey jr did some minor whining, but was warned in no uncertain terms to keep his shit together, plus we gorged him on more peanut M&Ms and Netflix than he usually gets in a week. Crisis averted.
And sometimes, to @kiki 's point, a stranger being very direct without being an asshole is what is needed. Kids have a gift for knowing how to test boundaries with parents. The appearance of a genuinely irritated & unaffiliated grownup who is clear without being threatening can do wonders, and while few parents will likely admit it, sometimes it’s a very welcome intervention.
2 Likes
Agree.
For the most part, adults who are parents are understanding of screaming kids. When you become a parent, you develop (or unlock) a filter on loud kid noise and more importantly, in the context of this thread, you develop a lot of understanding and tolerance, because we have all been there ourselves with our kids. It sucks and I have sympathy for them. I err greatly that I don’t know the situation or backstory. We know it sucks and we know we are in a confined space with no means to remove our kid from the situation.
Plus, adults not able to deal, should be wise enough by now to have noise canceling headphones which significantly drowns out screaming plane babies. That’s on you to come prepared.
And no, I do not think there is anything special or sacred about biz class vs coach. Kids should be allowed wherever. They paid for the seats. Biz class is not holy sacred ground. Its just barely less shitty than coach, which is already a hell level low bar to begin with.
.
There’s a big difference between domestic business class - at least in the U.S. - versus international.
On long haul international flights, business class usually has lie-flat seats in pods, and the expectation is that people will be sleeping. If kids are disrupting that, I don’t blame people for getting upset.
Most, yes. And it annoys me when people give them grief about things beyond their control.
But some parents seem to think that “kids should be kids” and not have to conform to social norms like not bugging the shit out of other people. That’s where I draw the line.
In Mexico last month I watched the same family at multiple locations allow their young children (6 and under if I had to guess) run around the restaurants, bump into people, yell and carry on, block the aisles by sitting down in the high traffic pass-through area, and then later use water guns to spray each other and other guests (I mean targeting adults’ heads while they were watching their kids in the pool). It’s completely unacceptable in my opinion, and I don’t think it’s an unreasonable one.
It’s pretty obvious when a parent is making an honest effort to minimize the impact on others, and just not giving a shit and leaving their kids to wreak havoc. The latter need to find a different society to live in, or planet.
Fair, i was referring to domestic and also i was trying to be a bit humorous, having a go at the state of airlines and traveling these days.
Related note, I recently took my first budget airlines in the US. Allegiant Airlines. Direct flight from Austin to Pittsburgh. Very cheap ticket cost, but was quick and direct.
Anyway, what I noticed on this n=1 sample was that there where a LOT of kids on the flight. Way way more than other flights and most of them were really young. So in a sense, this is your “family with kids” flights.
I can see why, if you have to fly with a bunch of kids, cheap tickets add up to a lot of savings. Plus they seem to be mostly routes that are direct in nature, no connections…so also good for dealing with kids.
It was also freaking noisy and more chaotic. But I knew I was stepping into a walmart greyhound flight situation going into it.
.
I agree completely. I guess I find those parents with zero consideration for others and a truly free range parenting style to be the exception rather than the norm. I think most people are pretty decent.
We go to Mexican resorts every other year or so, usually family oriented ones. I can’t say I see a ton of the behavior you describe. On occasion it happens, but even then most of the time if kids are causing a ruckus in a dining area or something, a quick intervention draws the parent’s attention, they apologize, reel their kid in, and life goes on (a very Canadian experience).
Maybe I’m way too tolerant and don’t notice or I’ve just been lucky to have not experienced that too much in my travels.
Interestingly enough, when visiting family in Italy we found it pretty common and acceptable for kids to not be sitting at the tables with their parents but roaming around, playing, etc. So long as they were staying out of people’s way it was fine.
A simple “Holy fuck, I was not even close to being right… I am an idiot” would have sufficed.
1 Like
Yet would have been inaccurate
You make some assumptions here (as did GMan).
You can’t just assume that 51% of the population that has a passport was born in the US. So some of that 16% of the foreign born people with passports will have a US passport. You can’t just add 16 and 51%
Also just because they were foreign born doesn’t mean that they currently have an valid passport.
This…
In related news, what about a crying baby in the stands at a tennis match?
Now see this I’m completely okay lambaating the parents about
Have you heard some of the players?
Cuba?? You been to Cuba?? You communist, you!! Where is Windy???
He has already passed his moral judgment on me.
Thankfully, the moral judgement of American conservatives doesn’t carry any weight whatsoever these days.
Immediately following calling out his lack of care for human rights and dignity
That’s some incredibly selective outrage you have there.
You must be new here! Welcome!