Ok so we all know that sleeved is faster/better. We also know that sleeved is more expensive. When I show up to races, this year anyway I’ve seen a lot more sleeveless suits.
Basic question that probably won’t have a solid answer. Just how much faster is a sleeved suit? Are we walking a lot? Or a little? From a cost benefit perspective. Looking for an approx of sec/100 of even quantitative data for distance of a race. Even self test are fine.
Also taking into effect T1. I’m reading 5-15 seconds faster.
Why do sleeves matter in T1? Your suit should be at your waist by the time you get to your bags
I’ve had sleeved and now race sleeveless with separate arm sleeves. For me it was fit. I doubt there are many stores that carry enough models and know enough to get a good fit for a lot of body types. Some might get lucky though. It’s also the cost vs my option. Cost also means I will train with it (when I fit). Also heard of others having two or even three models for different weights they flux between.
Why do sleeves matter in T1? Your suit should be at your waist by the time you get to your bags
I have trouble getting the sleeves off my shoulders and it slows be down on the way to T1. I count it as T1.
I’ve had sleeved and now race sleeveless with separate arm sleeves. For me it was fit. I doubt there are many stores that carry enough models and know enough to get a good fit for a lot of body types. Some might get lucky though. It’s also the cost vs my option. Cost also means I will train with it (when I fit). Also heard of others having two or even three models for different weights they flux between.
I didn’t know they had such a thing!
https://www.tyr.com/shop/neoprene-swim-sleeves.html
I really like them. This paired with a cheap Xterra is a great option for a lot of people.
I don’t believe the statement “sleeves are always faster†is true in all cases. Generally, I hear and read sleeves are generally faster, but not for everyone. Anecdotally, I had my fastest IM swim in a sleeveless, while I had my fastest Olympic Tri swim in a sleeved.
I believe it depends largely on WHO is wearing it. I hear Gerry Rodrigues say a $300 wetsuit, whether sleeved or sleeveless, can be faster on a particular athlete than a $999 wetsuit.
The best way to know what is best for YOU is to try on a variety of wetsuits, sleeved and sleeveless, and see how you do.
Assuming arguendo that sleeves are faster, I have to suspect it is simply because of the additional neoprene, even though the arms are above the water a lot of the time.
As for how much of a speed/time benefit one may have over the other, it again depends on the specific athlete. Some people benefit more from a wetsuit than others. Generally, a poorer swimmer will benefit more from a wetsuit than a strong swimmer.
I don’t recall this ever discussed: Sleeveless vs Sleeved vs Shorts. I just got a pair of Lava shorts and swam in the pool with them and I felt about as fast as my sleeveless. My thoughts are that when the temps are hovering near the wetsuit legal not legal limit then shorts may be a good alternative to prevent overheating and still get a “boost”.
Another argument for the sleeved suit is there is less drag around the shoulders because of the smooth transition from shoulder to sleeve vs the arm hole opening on a sleeveless.
Personally, I prefer my sleeveless but I do have a HUUB full suit from a few years ago that I really like as well. I’ve been unable to measure any difference in speed between the two.
I’ve never liked a full suit until I got the HUUB. I think all my others were just too tight.
For the pointy end of swimmers, sleeves is worth 1 to 2 seconds per 100. The slower you are, the more tenths you will be getting per 100 on top of that.
The only problem with sleeves is if it is a bad fit for you, that’s why there are anecdotes here about sleeveless being faster. And of course it is ridiculous to say any OW triathlon swim is faster than some other one, doesn’t work that way. Of course people feel faster, I get that, I feel faster with just my swimsuit on, but I’m not.
It all boils down to more rubber, closed off water flow, bigger arm pulling surface, and more compression to have arms. If you have problems with shoulder pull, get a better fitting suit with a longer torso, or just get the DeSoto two piece, problem solved. And learn how to swim in it, by taking less strokes than you would in a pool, they work…
Just bought the Arena Carbon Tri Wetsuit. Similar buoyancy to the HUUB 4:4 models. Definitely a swimmers suit. The size range is limited and seems oriented to swimmers and elite triathletes. The sizing is definitely European (reminds be of buying Castelli or Assos)… I have a large.
Ok so we all know that sleeved is faster/better. We also know that sleeved is more expensive. When I show up to races, this year anyway I’ve seen a lot more sleeveless suits.
Basic question that probably won’t have a solid answer. Just how much faster is a sleeved suit? Are we walking a lot? Or a little? From a cost benefit perspective. Looking for an approx of sec/100 of even quantitative data for distance of a race. Even self test are fine.
Loved Dan’s article, but I still contend that for me, my sleeveless is faster. But I am in the extreme minority due to shoulder flexibility issues.
https://www.tyr.com/shop/neoprene-swim-sleeves.html
I really like them. This paired with a cheap Xterra is a great option for a lot of people.
So the question here is what’s the speed difference with separate sleeves vs. sleeveless vs full sleeve. If it’s faster than sleeveless which is already a 1-2 sec diff… shouldn’t a lot more triathletes take this option? Even here in New England I see a lot of sleeveless but I think price has to do with that as well. Seems like for “most†of the benefit you could have the best of both worlds. Not to mention that 1-2secs is in a controlled environment. The difference will likely be lesser in the real world once you deal with waves, bumping, and drafting.
Just how much faster is a sleeved suit? .
I did some pretty extensive wetsuit testing many, many years ago when I was a much better swimmer than I am now. Then I was solidly swimming in the very low 26s for halfs with some 25s and the very occasional very, very high 24 something. Even lead overall out of the water at a few races.
For me the difference per 400yd for a sleeved wetsuit was about :29-:31/400yds faster on the worst wetsuits and :34 - :36 for the fastest wetsuits
That’s over 2:30 in a half from no wetsuit to sleeved wetsuit. Which, quite frankly, is an ass whipping.
I didn’t bother testing sleeveless for 2 reasons:
In dealing with triathletes for >20yrs coaching the #1 thing I see when people say they can’t swim in a sleeved wetsuit is they do not know how to put it on correctly. There is too much material in the torso/legs. All that needs to be pulled up into the shoulders. YMMV
Hope that helps & here are the results if you care to read.
I don’t believe the statement “sleeves are always faster†is true in all cases. Generally, I hear and read sleeves are generally faster, but not for everyone. Anecdotally, I had my fastest IM swim in a sleeveless, while I had my fastest Olympic Tri swim in a sleeved.
I believe it depends largely on WHO is wearing it. I hear Gerry Rodrigues say a $300 wetsuit, whether sleeved or sleeveless, can be faster on a particular athlete than a $999 wetsuit.
Most top of the line suit are slower than the next model down. I was sponsored by QR back in the day. The brand manager told me he was going to send me their fastest suit. Imagine my horror when it was their 2nd line suit. His response was I can’t have my pro’s wearing anything but the top line suit. You we can put in the fastest suit. When I did my wetsuit testing nearly every company I talked with said arm catch panels are slower but they are the cost of entry into the upper midline & top line suits. I’ve not seen any data in recent years to actually show they make anyone swim faster. If it’s out there I’d love to see it.
The best way to know what is best for YOU is to try on a variety of wetsuits, sleeved and sleeveless, and see how you do.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ X 100,000
One of the smarter observations I read on here (perhaps by you?) is that the ITU folks always wear full sleeve when the swim is wetsuit legal. I actual make a game of it now - try to find a sleeveless suit in the WTS.
If the folks doing the race where the swim matters the most always wear sleeves, that does say something.
In a Dan Empfield article on wetsuits he points out that basically all of the pro’s wear sleeved wetsuits on race day, and that it can’t be coincidence. They all have likely found sleeves to be faster.
I agree with others that folks that find sleeveless to be faster probably just didn’t have a sleeved wetsuit that fit them well and likely suffered from shoulder fatigue. That was my problem with sleeved wetsuits for a long time. I tried an Orca sonar… Shoulder fatigue. Zone 3 Vision… Shoulder fatigue. And then finally I tried Desoto’s 2 piece wetsuits. Zero shoulder fatigue & instantly faster swim splits versus the sleeveless. No other product has helped my swim splits as much as the Desoto T1. I personally only have the long sleeved top, but if you wanted you could purchase the sleeved and sleeveless version and find out for yourself which is faster.
Loved Dan’s article, but I still contend that for me, my sleeveless is faster. But I am in the extreme minority due to shoulder flexibility issues.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ed_De_Soto_6779.html
I agree with others that folks that find sleeveless to be faster probably just didn’t have a sleeved wetsuit that fit them well and likely suffered from shoulder fatigue. That was my problem with sleeved wetsuits for a long time. I tried an Orca sonar… Shoulder fatigue. Zone 3 Vision… Shoulder fatigue. And then finally I tried Desoto’s 2 piece wetsuits. Zero shoulder fatigue & instantly faster swim splits versus the sleeveless. No other product has helped my swim splits as much as the Desoto T1. I personally only have the long sleeved top, but if you wanted you could purchase the sleeved and sleeveless version and find out for yourself which is faster.
I have shoulder issues, which were, while not alleviated certainly mitigated when I switched to the DeSoto T1. I can’t say enough good things about that suit and my shoulders (as well as the company and their customer service).
But, as noted in another thread, I recently tried the deboer wetsuit and it’s like wearing a sleeveless but with sleeves. It also alleviates some of the issues (not shoulder related) I have with the DeSoto. (I should note that their customer service has been top notch as well!! Seriously, it’s like the people and deboer and DeSoto actually care about their customers, imagine that!)
All that said, most people I know who gravitate to the sleeveless do so because of shoulder issues, ease of finding a fit, ease of use and price. They are not concerned with the difference in speed of a few second/100 gained by one thing versus another, but that’s my small part of the world.