I’ve been an endurance athlete my entire life. I’m 5’-11 and have never weighed over 160. So never any overweight issues. I’ve always considered myself really lean if I can be around 150#. Last year I did my first IM and weighed in the day before at 158 on the IM scales. I was a little sick, a little injured, and maybe a little over tapered. And maybe the scale was a hair high. All that said I had a good race experience.
I have since moved to be 100% cyclist. I’ve always dreamed of the coveted 5w/kg threshold. At 70kg that’s 350 watts and coming from 325-330 that’s a tall order at age 39.
So this winter I attempted to get my diet in order. I used the myfitnesspall app and went to work. I have had great luck losing around 1/2# / week and generally eat a lot of very nutrient dense food. Very little for sweets. My diet is pretty diverse, but I literally weigh and measure everything I can. It’s worked. I now weigh about 142-143 on a certified type scale! So right now I’m about 10 full pounds less than I’ve ever been for racing.
During this weight loss period I’ve never been sick. I’ve never really felt week despite up to 20 hours / week cycling and 900 TSS. FTP if anything is up a hair. 5 minute power is up a hair fresh off a test.
I can see most veins in my legs, even some showing in the abs / etc. I appear VERY VERY lean. The question is when do I stop? I don’t want to wait until it’s too late. I have my first stage race next weekend and it involves an uphill TT, but also involves 3 consecutive days of racing.
I understand that strong is better than light. Too light compromises health and immune function. Based on others I know that I’ve actually seen lab tested I’d guess I’m currently pushing below 6% bf and maybe approaching 4. I understand that’s not sustainable, but I’m looking for experiences from others that tell me when to say when. Or when to start holding weight instead of losing.
“the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you’ve been sick. then you know you’re within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you’ve got cancer or aids, you’re within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you’re at race weight.”
I don’t think you need to worry - it’s very difficult to get “too lean” without feeling like crap. i.e. you’ll feel terrible before you get too lean. If you are only just now starting to see abs then you probably still have a little to go before you’re too low.
I misread as “abs showing” instead “veins showing in abs”… so you probably don’t actually have much to go. If I were you I’d quit dieting and focus on fueling for performance improvements.
“the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you’ve been sick. then you know you’re within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you’ve got cancer or aids, you’re within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you’re at race weight.”
Slowman (Dan Empfield)
Since I get Dan’s comments all the time, guess it is a great test to use about being around race weight.
There seems to always be delay affect in things. It is possible the weight loss could catch up eventually. Right now if you weight keeps dropping and your power increases and you aren’t waking up in the middle of the night with food cravings then you are probably doing ok. The key is you are managing it. That is the only way to do it and to drop it down slow. Others who don’t manage always fall victim to the yo-yo effect. They eat too much on their easy days as well and eat too little after their hard days which exacerbates the effect.
Many years ago I actually put my food journal out there for 7 days. The reality is that I don’t always track but when I am trying to manage it, like I am now coming into race season, I am very very diligent about it. It is the only method that works IMO. ‘What gets measured gets managed’ is my quote for the thread.
I don’t think you need to worry - it’s very difficult to get “too lean” without feeling like crap. i.e. you’ll feel terrible before you get too lean. If you are only just now starting to see abs then you probably still have a little to go before you’re too low.
At somewhere in the 4-6 percent body fat range he’s seeing veins in his abs. He is definitely not “only just now starting to see abs”!
I don’t think you need to worry - it’s very difficult to get “too lean” without feeling like crap. i.e. you’ll feel terrible before you get too lean. If you are only just now starting to see abs then you probably still have a little to go before you’re too low.
At somewhere in the 4-6 percent body fat range he’s seeing veins in his abs. He is definitely not “only just now starting to see abs”!
ah ok - I read it as “some abs showing” but you’re right he’s talking about veins! Yeah that it pretty lean!
Correct on the veins vs. abs. I could clearly see abs at 158.
Right now if I heat up at all every part of my body is popping with veins. Yes even my abs. Never seen that on myself before.
I have a teammate that had eating issues. He lab tested at 4% BF and has a smoking hot metabolism. I’m not sure I’m where he was at yet, but I think I’m real close.
try and get a Dexa scan - Bodyspec is a good one - that would be super interesting to see. The numbers are higher than a hydrostatic test, but you get a lot of good info about muscle distribution too. For example a contest-ready bodybuilder will be 7-8% on Dexa, and 3% on Hydrostatic or calipers. If I had veins popping out everywhere, I’d switch it up to focus on fueling performance - I don’t think there’d be a lot more advantage to getting leaner than that.
I’m also interested in what calorie goal you set in myfitnesspal - did you just use their recommendation? And did you add your workout calories back in or just stick to a consistent daily target?
Do you pay attention to power on climbs vs. flats?
Or does that even matter to you?
I have found that when I get too light, tt and power on the flats suffers a bit.
If you’re in the grocery store, just minding your own business, and someone asks “Where did you get the awesome zombie makeup? Did you do that yourself?” you *may *have a problem
ETA: D’Wife’s nickname for me is “Skinny Little Shit”
Plenty of comedians in this thread for sure. The purpose was not to garnish that sort of attention, but rather get some or any sort of signs of being too lean.
Anyway Rob that wasn’t directed at you.
When I started early Jan I set myfitnesspal to “lightly active.” I have a desk job so they’d recommend sedentary. I know though that I’m a burner so upped calories a bit to start. It seemed to work as the weight came off very slowly and has ever since. As far as macros I left that at default settings. Looking back I get not only the ratios pretty close but also the “minimums” of about 1/2g fat and 1g protein per pound per day. So without changing hardly a thing I was pretty dialed from the start. Lucky.
Just like everything else I do I’m very meticulous. I’ve also ridden my bike more than ever with some weeks knocking on 900 TSS. All while slowly losing weight. That’s where I start to become afraid and wonder when enough becomes enough. I don’t know and I don’t want to find out.
If you are persistently running a calorie deficit of >30kcal/kg of lean body mass then you are basically throwing any beneficial adaptation to your training under the bus.
You see it every year at Kona folks starving themselves down to % bodyfat bodybuilders would be proud of then wondering why they are “flat” and “lacking energy” mid race.
thanks - I like that you were patient and lost slowly - I’ve always been too impatient for that but with my latest effort I tried to lose as slowly as possible and it feels more sustainable that way. Now that I’ve read your post I really like the idea of getting veins in my abs!
My lean body mass should be about 135# or 61 kg at 5% bf. 30 cals per kg (30x61) is 1830 calories. Is that 1830 deficit per week or am I reading this formula incorrectly?
Are you having difficulty sleeping through the night? i.e. night sweats, waking up starving at 3 am, wired feeling trying to fall asleep?
For me, someone who has pushed to 15 lbs lighter than you at 6’ that is where it showed up first. I now settle in around 133-135 lbs race weight and everything goes to hell, sleep first, in rapid order below that.