I have searched the forum and googled online to see if I should join Masters to train for a 2.4 mile swim and I see where people recommend it but is it really a great idea when training for an Ironman distance swim?I know it makes sense to refine technique, do drills and join a great group of people but…???
I have done some freediving and SCUBA but was never a swimmer. Started in 2014 after I struggled to get through the swim in a fat tire sprint tri. Since then it seems to have become my strongest sport of the three. There is a Masters class, actually 2 Masters classes offered a day at my local pool and I have always considered joining but didn’t want to embarrass myself with real swimmers. Now that I am better I am considering joining next Monday but all I ever see them doing is 50s and 100s.
Does this really get me ready for a 2.4 mile swim? I can only manage 3 swims a week, sometimes 4.
My week is typically;
swim 1. 3 or 4x500scy swims trying to better each one, I will build these each week.
swim 2. 3000 yard swim and will build this distance each week,
swim 3. some random 500s, 100s, 200s, maybe a 1000 just to work on stroke and muscle strength.
swim 4. (Rare) another long swim
Today was 2600 straight and then 4x100s to get 3000 in. This really hits my lats hard and started wondering if cutting out this distance swimming and replacing it with 50s and 100s was REALLY the best approach for my season.
Yes I am also considering the extra cost of joining.
I am thinking like running. If I cut out the long run and replaced it with short track runs would I really be able to run a marathon and not struggle?
The short answer is yes. The conventional wisdom is that the way to become a stronger swimmer, even for long distances, is to do a lot of short, hard intervals to work both your form and your swim-specific fitness.
One thing I’ve never entirely understood, as a relative newbie to all of this, is why that logic doesn’t really apply to biking and running, where intervals aren’t irrelevant but long workouts are considered key. I suspect part of it has to do with how form/technique-critical swimming is, but I’m not convinced that’s the whole answer.
The short answer is yes. The conventional wisdom is that the way to become a stronger swimmer, even for long distances, is to do a lot of short, hard intervals to work both your form and your swim-specific fitness.
One thing I’ve never entirely understood, as a relative newbie to all of this, is why that logic doesn’t really apply to biking and running, where intervals aren’t irrelevant but long workouts are considered key. I suspect part of it has to do with how form/technique-critical swimming is, but I’m not convinced that’s the whole answer.
without getting into a big long explanation…
lotsa intervals (that are challenging) in swimming works. Doing the same thing in running will beat the S%#t out of you - and would result in injuries in no time flat.
Now…
As an adult onset swimmer (with some success, sorry BDB there), you can take what would be intervals on the track and convert them to swimming (adjust for distance, of course), because you’ll be doing far less than the “normal” swimmer - question is will it be enough?
Stay tuned for another exciting episode of…
How do I swim faster?
I think the biggest advantage to swimming with a swim team as opposed to swimming solo, is learning how to feel comfortable when the area around you is congested. For most novice swimmers, this is the scariest part of open water swimming. So I certainly think swimming repeat 50’s & 100’s with >3-4 people per lane will create good turbulance & congestion that will allow you to begin to feel comfortable being uncomfortable in the water. Get on someone’s feet, let someone swim on your feet, get passed at the wall, pass someone else, all while swimming fast. I think this is an invaluable skill.
It’s also far easier to motivate with a group, when you want to hold the pace with others, not slow people down, not be passed, etc. Sure, you can push yourself hard on your own, but it takes a ton of willpower. In a group, if you’re paired with appropriately strong swimmers, you’ll all push each other to have better workouts. And there’s a social aspect to it as well, misery loves company.
One thing to keep in mind, the distance you are swimming in masters versus the distance you’d run doing track repeats is a lot different.
I see distances in local master’s swim ranging from 2,400m to 4,100m normally, and since the ironman swim is 3,800, even the 2,400 gets you 2/3 of the distance of the ironman swim.
Running on the other hand, not only is it load bearing high impact activity that’s going to be really jarring to your body, you’re not going to be doing interval sessions of 16-28 miles which would be equivalent % wise to the marathon in an ironman.
If you COULD, then simply running a marathon steady would be no problem.
The real advantage of master’s swim class though is the coaching, and competitive nature that people will tend to have in the water when swimming with others as opposed to just doing your own thing.
You can always do interval sets on your own, but unless you know how to swim coach, and can see yourself in the water, then there is a real advantage to having the other eyes on you.
Yes, you absolutely, positively should join masters.
I swam masters leading up to my IM. My IM swim was the second time I had worn my wetsuit all year, and the first time I had swam anything over maybe 500m at a time. And I’m an adult onset swimmer.
Go regularly, work your ass off, study the strokes, and you will get better, and you’ll get better faster then if you were just doing the usual triathlete bullshit in the pool.
In a 25 lane pool, they have 5 or 6 people show up for Masters morning class so being in a busy pool wouldn’t help. I just don’t want to ruin my first Ironman with interval swims when I know I could do okay with my own swimming. That being said it looks like the response is join and that is why I am here. To get advice.
On the IM swim, unless you are insanely fast or insanely slow, you will be swimming in a lot closer quarters then 5/6 to a lane. Might as well get used to swimming in less then ideal conditions now.
Also, you wont ruin your swim. You will improve it. It’s those shorter intervals, while still focusing on your technique, that will make you a faster swimmer.
I meant there are 25 open lanes and only 5 or 6 guys. If I was too ask a swimmer if I could get in with him I may get drug to the bottom. Lanes are wide open.
My goal is to break 1 hour for the swim. I know Masters would improve my technique I just don’t want to show up and have an amazing 500 yard time in a 2.4 mile swim. I got the point though. I will join, after all this is a lifetime challenge so if I am disappointed in the result I will try differently in 2017.
We are around the same speed then. I wanted to break an hour in my IM, ended up swimming 1:02, but, I took it ridiculously easy. Like, the first thing I did after getting out of the water was let out a big yawn. Wish I had a watch so I could have checked my time mid way and picked it up a bit.
But anyways,
What a lot of people don’t understand is how that 500yd speed effects your 3.8k speed. You really don’t need to be regularly swimming anything longer then a 200. Most of your swim workouts, in total, will be around 3k (most likely). Without realizing it, you will get the endurance training you need to be more then ready to meet your IM swim goals.
If you’re really worried about it, do a couple of long sets on your own in the weeks before the IM, just to put your mind at ease. You wont need them though.
That is a great point but I am not sure that all Masters swims do 50’s and 100’s. As far as I know, some might do 500’s or even 1000’s. My question was more towards my local Masters that does 50’s and 100’s. Will that get me ready for a 2.4 mile swim?
It appears the answer is yes, it will. I was on the edge but now I am pretty excited to join. I think it will do great things for my speed and technique. I just hope I can keep up with the 100’s and leave on time when the clock strikes.
I watch them out of the corner of my eye and even race them when there is a fast swimmer coming off the wall next to me so, yeah, I can imagine my competitive spirit screaming every class.
I did only a few Masters swims a long time ago, when I had been swimming only a year (none where I live now) and I noticed 2 things.
First, the willingness of the guy/gal on the deck to give some pointers that really helped my stoke. It wasn’t terribly crowded, and I let the coaches know I was pretty new and open to help. Simple tweaks helped a great deal, since I obviously couldn’t see what I actually was doing. Those pointers I took with me to my regular practice and I think it made a big difference.
Second, the sets were quite a bit longer than I had been doing, but with the motivation of the group it didn’t feel nearly so bad. So I developed a realization that I actually could do 3,000+ without dying. That was a big mental boost.
Fast forward to this year, where I committed to being a consistent swimmer for the first time in 10+'years. I got all the Guppy challenge PDFs here by Slowman, and have been in the water 3x/week for the last 6 weeks. Sounds like being consistent isn’t your issue, but having someone else do the programming has kept it fresh and I think I look forward to swimming for the first time, in a very long time.
My goal is more modest, in that I want to go 70 min for my first IM this October, but I think the issues are the same, in that, we want to improve. Would masters help me? Yes! Having another set of eyes on my stroke would be priceless regardless of the format of the workout.
By the way, since you are likely faster than than the Guppy workouts are designed for, there is another 10-week set that Dan created that I found, the Tarpon Challenge. Might look into that. I plan do do that series when I’m done with the Guppy one.
Swimming is about technique more than fitness. Train like a swimmer to to get better at swimming. Lost of long slow swimming gains you very little. Have you ever heard of anyone getting a lot better at swimming by doing a lot of long slow yardage? If running didn’t present injury risk, you would do the same to improve run technique.
Good article. It makes sense to push your body with short hard intervals since their is no impact. With that short of a rest I can see why you would be able to swim long as well. Your body really doesn’t get rest since your doing sprint repeats.