Just finished an open water race today, and while I’m generally pleased with how I did I can’t help but feel I should be faster based on my pool times. This was a freshwater lake swim, water temp about 78 degrees Fahrenheit, air temp at the start was about 70-72. I was wearing fast-ish jammers, no swim skin or anything. Watch ended up recording me as 4034 meters in 58:14 for an average pace of 1:26 per 100m or 1:19 per 100y.
I mostly train in 25y pools, averaging 3000-4000y per session with a masters team (they really like their shorter sets and more rest, and grumble about distance, so I usually stay after to get extra yards in myself). One day every other week I’ll do 4-5k open water in the lake. Total swim distance each week is generally between 12k-20k this summer, but it has admittedly been more inconsistent than I thought. I just did the math and if I average all the weeks since Jun 1st I’ve really only averaged 12,000 yards per week.
A more recent hard set of 9x100’s I did in the 25y pool with descending intervals (3x on 1:25, 3x on 1:20, 3x on 1:15) had me coming in on 1:05 for each 100. The last 3 started to become a struggle to maintain 1:05, but I did. When we do 400y I’m usually coming in on 4:26-4:36 depending on when in the set it occurs and what preceded it. I can easily do a :59 100y free from a push at the end of practice, and have done :57 and :58 a handful of times. I’m not new to open water swimming, have a decent background in it, sight well (though maybe too often?) and can change up my stroke and breathing patterns depending on the chop/wave conditions.
With all that info out there (trying to preempt some of the questions), does my open water race pace seem like it’s match for my pool pace? Am I just lacking the endurance to go faster? Is my 25y pool training is holding me back too much? Or maybe it truly just is the lack of yardage as they say and I need to get more serious about not skipping practices and when the team does a 2500-3000 yard practice I make sure I stay late until I get up to 4000-4500 yards each time.
you are a very decent swimmer so i am not trying to be negative or talk shit at you
but imo its too hard to try to determine pace based on an OW swim, as that assumes the distance is accurate and the amount you have swam is accurate. the time itself is pretty meaningless, just where you place and how far off you are from people you are racing imo
so i wouldnt think of that pace as having much significance (based on the calculations youve done)
you can only really give yourself a reliable distance pace by doing pool sets, where you are swimming by yourself, without gear, without a draft at longer intervals. could you do a 2km in the pool holding 1:15 without too much trouble, which is what has you wondering?
100s good for locking in pace in your stroke but too short to give a reliable idea how you can hold that pace together
No drafting, that was breaking the water the whole way. Nobody was in front the first lap, 2nd lap I had to navigate around the slower wave for the last 800 meters or so.
Yeah, good points. It’s probably just a mental thing for me I need to get over. When I’m not racing and see a normal 1:24-1:30/100y pace in open water I just think I should be faster given the effort I put in and how I know that effort feels in the pool.
I will have to do a 2000y test for myself at a moderate pace tomorrow and see what I can hold. Based on what I’ve done for the rare 800 or 1000 I don’t think a 1:15/100y pace would be hard to hold. Sounds like maybe I should just be using that as my benchmark for distance fitness and let the races play out however they may depending on water conditions and competition.
Part of what had me wondering was the fact that I signed up for a bunch of 5k half-Oceanman open water races over the winter and was trying to gauge how I might perform. Guess I’ll just have to find out!
OK so you won the race and you are complaining!!! Just kidding, just because you win doesnt mean you had your ideal race, and reflection is always good afterwards… Keep in mind those watches and distances are usually off, sometimes way off. But in your case the paces dont seem too crazy off, also keep in mind little back and forths off the straight line are not going to be recorded either… Also keep in mind the pool with flips is a lot faster, and I think your 7 seconds from meters to yards is also off a bit, more like 8+ I would guess…
Good idea to do a 2k in the pool for an actual pace(times 2 of course) to look at. I’m thinking you should be around 1;12/13 or so off your times. Let us know…
hahaha yeah I was trying not to focus on my winning the event, which was a small local race so not exactly competitive. In the back of my mind I’m trying to determine if I have potential to podium in my AG (40-49) at one of the 5k half-Oceanman swims that I signed up for. No real way to determine that though until I show up and race given the difference in distance and conditions for each course.
I totally understand the pool is much faster than open water, I guess I was just hoping I’d be closer to a 1:15/1:16 pace per 100y but the reality is I need to do the 2000y (x2) test in the pool to see where my fitness really is. Also need to get serious about putting the total distance in during training.
A given pace, say 115/120/125/130/140 per hundred, whatever it is per individual swimmer - that is their baseline
That given pace is not hard to hold for reps of 100s
But if you can hold it for 30 minutes to an 1 hour you are much more optimised to open water
An example of a really good ow swimmer here
His 1500 scm was holding 114 pace in his 40s. He’s now early 60s and can prob still get close to 115-116 per 100 for a scm 1500. For a few reps of 100s that isn’t fast. But for 20 minutes to 40 minute swims it is, and he can just hold on to that pace. I doubt he could go much faster than 111-112 even in a sprint. Years ago Whereas his peers could do 110-113 per 100m in scm 1500m they now dropped off more and are not as consistent. They could beat him in a series of 100s but the test of truth in ow not so, over an hours race he gets minutes
But
Even comparing open water times, some may have been in a pack, some may have drafted, some may have had better currents on the line they took, some may have got a wave
What makes OW a bit of a crap shoot sometimes, but also less objective and demeaning than swimming racing can be. For many very good swimmers in their earlier years, doing swim meets is mentally problematic for the time aspect.
In my experience, based on the set and times you describe, that’s about what I would expect you to go. I wouldn’t put much stock in the accuracy of your watch. Your conversion should probably be closer to 1:16/100y from 1:26/100m. Based on your 400 yard time call it 1:08/100 yards, that’s about spot on if we make the large assumption that your watch is very, very accurate.
Best advice - swim more in the pool, work with a qualified coach on your stroke one on one and stop doing open water practice swims. You want to do well at a 4000m open water swims do some really hard sets that are around 4000m while holding the absolute best technique possible. That means you have to be PRESENT with every stroke. The real problem comes in for triathletes doing sets like those by themselves.